William Forrester, Jr. & The Metropolitan Junior Baseball League: Shaping Tomorrow's Champions

Jack Moore (00:03.67)
Welcome everyone again to more to consider here again. I'm saying we're going to cover a lot of my loves and my love in large part is involved with baseball and its history. So in the fall, actually in December, I went to the Virginia baseball coaching association meeting in Richmond, Virginia. While I was there, I went because I had some friends that were being inducted.

into the hall of fame there for the Commonwealth of Virginia. And part of that presentation that evening was a Dr. William M.T. Forrester who got the baseball impact award. 2024 VBCA baseball impact award honors the late Dr. William M.T. Forrester, the pioneering figure in Virginia baseball community and civil rights advocate. Dr. Forrester founded the Metropolitan Junior Baseball League in Richmond, Virginia.

1966 to promote inner city youth, especially African-American children with opportunities to play organized baseball during the era of segregation. Inspired after his son was excluded from local little league teams due to racial barriers, Dr. Forrester created the MJBL as an inclusive option or league open to all youth. Beyond baseball, he incorporated educational and cultural programs to support the development of well-rounded productive citizens.

Over the decades, the MJBL has grown into a national network with teams across the United States, the Caribbean, continuing Dr. Forrester's mission to uplift disadvantaged youth throughout sports or through sports. So that night, the young man who gave the presentation for his father was William that I have on with me now. How are you, sir?

William Forrester Jr (01:54.433)
Hey Jack, I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on.

Jack Moore (01:57.932)
So that night I went up and said, and I really have a heart for what you're saying, what your father did for the youth of Richmond and the particular time he did it, the history y'all know. And I'm like, Hey, if there's anything we can do going forward together to work together to help young people in general. So here's my editorial comment. And I think William, you would go right along with me and agree on this.

There was a time for all races of kids and, and your father, certainly 1966 had a big jump on helping youth in the inner city of Richmond, but it, used to be sort of a, everybody went, wore blue jeans and a t-shirt and signed up for little league and got a chance to play. And then you kind of weeded out the process of who was going to progress in baseball. A lot of kids played baseball and they just played it. played in the backyard, sand lots. They played in open fields. They just got together and played.

And now it's become, hate to say it this way, but it's become kind of a country club sport. It's become a pay to play where one used to think the only kids that play golf were kids that could join the golf club or, or, you know, belong to a country club. didn't play tennis unless you belong to something. And now I think for white kids, black kids, and all kids, kids are getting pushed out of the game in large part because of the finances. William, what do you have to add on that? you

except that take on things.

William Forrester Jr (03:26.283)
Jack you are you really summed it up. You're exactly right. This is a class situation now and Unfortunately, so many young kids aren't getting introduced to the game at a young age when they can develop the love for the game that both you and I did when we were young and and without that their loss in the game is meaningless to them

Jack Moore (03:51.945)
So let me ask you about that because it's interesting, know, my perspective as a white kid that grew up in Caroline and I've told you this, you know, it's probably like my County was 50 50 black white or our football teams would be 35 black guys, five white guys, basketball team. might be a white guy every once in a while in baseball. We were about 50 50. It was usually like eight and eight mates 16. So I certainly grew up in a history where

Uh, it's not just cliche. had a lot of black guys that were like brothers and best friends. And when I got out of high school, I played in the all black leagues out in the, you know, in the, uh, pretty much out in the country playing for teams that, uh, traveled around the different restaurants. And, you know, that was my experience. And why I say that is black kids, I'm born in 1962. graduated 1980 young black men that I played ball with.

It was in the blood, their history. They played baseball. They love baseball. And as the years went on and I got more involved in coaching, I saw more and more that young black kids today, and this is, think exactly what you're talking about. They just aren't around it as much. It's become a basketball, football type of culture. What was your experience? What was your love of baseball?

William Forrester Jr (05:09.859)
When I came about Jack, Willie Mays was playing and it was the game of the week that came on on Saturdays.

Jack Moore (05:15.269)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (05:20.647)
That's right.

William Forrester Jr (05:21.139)
And you know, that's the only time was three TV stations, CBS, NBC and ABC. And the game of the week came on and my dad and I, we sat in front of TV and he liked the St. Louis Cardinals who had Bob Gibson pitching. And my favorite player was Willie Mays and I liked the San Francisco Giants. And, you know, it was something that, you know, everybody gravitated to.

Jack Moore (05:39.11)
That's right.

William Forrester Jr (05:51.035)
that was the dominant sport. And I think probably it was, it probably was baseball and then boxing. Boxing was huge back then. And then football and basketball were secondary sports. So, know, times have really changed since, you know, when you and I came up and were involved with the sporting arena.

Jack Moore (06:16.409)
And it's interesting you say that because I did a show earlier today on the Washington Redskins name. And, I was totally unaware of when I grew up until I become much older. And I was talking about growing up 70 miles from DC and going, I have, and I have his autograph here. I have Bobby Mitchell's autograph. Bobby Mitchell hall of Famer first black man to play for the Washington Redskins. I didn't know that George Preston Marshall wouldn't integrate the team because then

The sixties in the mid sixties, my favorite players are Sonny Jurgensen, Bobby Mitchell, Charlie Taylor, Sam Huff. Then it's Larry Brown. So as a kid growing up, especially where I grew up, this isn't just cliche. A lot of my favorite players were black. So I don't know some of the history. And, what you say about, remember the all-star game and I remember gaining a great deal of respect for Joe Torrey as a manager years later.

because you could see year after year, the National League went way ahead of the American League in large part because they integrated first. And I remember every time it was all star game, it's Willie Mays leading off, Hank Aaron two, a lot of times Joe Torrey hitting three. And then it was Willie Stargell, Willie McCovey. So you would see five or six black guys starting every year for the National League with Joe Torrey sandwiched in there in the three slot. So

That was kind of a given. And then the American league was much, much more white. It just was. They were, they were much slower to integrate. The Red Sox, I'm wearing a Red Sox thing now, the Red Sox did not integrate until 1959. And, know, so I could understand if you're a young black kid growing up in the sixties and you're seeing Willie Starge and the Willie Mays and McCovey. And I think Mays is an argument. I think the argument, the greatest players of all time, Mantle's in that, Mays is in that, Aaron's in that.

You know, Ruth is in that greatest hitter might be Ted Williams. Interesting about him and the race dynamic. His mother was Mexican. Well, I'll tell you that real quick. I told you this before. Pumsey green who's Cornell green's brother, who was the first black man to play for the Red Sox says, I'm scared of that. It's 1959 last team to integrate. come to clubhouse and who's the first guy to speak to me, Ted Williams, the biggest star in baseball. Hey, we're gonna go.

Jack Moore (08:41.538)
We'll go get a catch. We'll go play catch. And I'm like, wow, Ted speaking to me, know, like Ted Williams. So Ted Williams in his induction in 1966 into the hall of fame, big part of his speech is the players from the Negro leagues need to be in the hall of fame. He said that 19 people didn't say that then. So it's later brought out about his background. He always felt a certain degree of scrutiny or looked down upon because his mom was Mexican. He grew up in San Diego. So he was sensitive to race.

William Forrester Jr (08:46.154)
Right.

Jack Moore (09:10.742)
because he had felt some of that himself. And it's interesting when you hear the black players in the air, they all love Ted Williams, because they thought, you know, Ted was straight down the middle, but he reaches out to Pumsey green before anyone else does, because he's Ted Williams and you know, he's an interesting cat. know, Ted Williams is interesting. But I do think there's that dynamic if kids look at TV and they don't, and I don't, want to go to that hole, they do what you see yourself, but clearly there was a time, and I heard Scouts say this, you couldn't find kids.

black kids to catch anymore. But if you go back to the sixties, Roy Campanella, Johnny Roseboro, there were a lot of dominant black catchers. so, you know, kids are going to kind of gravitate towards what they see on TV. And now that the percentages have dropped as much as they have, um, there's going to be a certain difficulty getting interest. I will, let me say this too. I've worked with a ton of black kids that have played pro ball that have been

William Forrester Jr (09:52.717)
That's right.

Jack Moore (10:09.728)
that I've been very close to in their orbit. And many of them say they get a lot of noise from their friends like, man, why are you playing baseball? That's a white guy sport. Like, why aren't you playing basketball? And I'm sure you've heard some of that because you're on the front lines trying to get kids to play. What do you hear from kids today?

William Forrester Jr (10:28.707)
Exactly what you just said. But, you know, it goes beyond just the viewership because I think baseball's viewership is down across the board with young people. Young adults, teenagers.

Jack Moore (10:42.873)
you're right.

William Forrester Jr (10:47.083)
their numbers are down and I think they're doing all they can to to get that viewership up. But it's going to start on the playgrounds. Kids are going to have to get back on the ball fields and actually play. And then once they acquire understanding and love for the game, then they'll watch the pros play on TV. But if you don't understand the game, it can be very boring watching watching baseball the way it's

constructed today with either a strikeout or a home run and then the rest of the time you're just sitting back watching. So if you don't know the fine points of the game where this pitcher, what he's throwing inside, outside, mixing it up, down low, fastball, slider, if you understand that, then it's interesting. But if you haven't been exposed at a young age, you'll never get to that point.

You know, it makes a big difference.

Jack Moore (11:46.758)
In the, well, in the attention span of young people today, not their fault. You know, was out with my friend, Tom house a few years ago, the legendary pitching coach, and I'm out there 10 years ago complaining, young people today. goes, Hey, hard to be a young person now that's ever been. And it really hit me. He's like, you know, this guy's 15 years old and I am, and he's saying, there's a lot of stresses on kids today and they have become, you know, it's, it's cliche to say, but they become sort of social media.

creatures and they're, they're all playing to whatever they think their image is within among the community of the kids that may never see them live person to person. So we clearly grew up in a different time, which I think in a lot of ways was healthier and better. And it's not their fault. But with that being said, I think there is an attention span issue and you're right. And I know you're preaching exactly what you and I understand. I can go to a game and I'm like,

William Forrester Jr (12:17.155)
You

Jack Moore (12:45.277)
What's the catcher thinking here? What's the count? Are they going to go on this pitch? Are they thinking of, know, there's, there's that nuance to people that love baseball. We're seeing a whole lot of other things going on. And a lot of kids are like, all I know is I haven't seen a hit home run in 15, 20 minutes, or it's boring, or it is it's their basketball. You're scoring constantly football. It's a lot of physical contact. It's the ball being thrown all over the place.

And clearly football has changed a lot in 40 years. know, defense is non-existent. Everybody scores every time they touch the ball. And that kind of feeds that energy that people have to have to see a lot of excitement all the time. But it's interesting with the passing of Ricky Henderson, it shocked me. I had no idea he had any health issues going on. And of course I loved Ricky Henderson like many did. He did not like baseball growing up. So the story he tells is.

I see him on an interview and somebody says, you didn't really like baseball. Nah, he was born and I like basketball because I got to show my great legs to the girls at the stands. He literally said that he goes, basketball, you're in shorts and the girls like your legs and I get to run up and down the floor and score a lot. And he had a teacher who was father had played baseball and said, look, honey, I think you could be a really good baseball player. Tell you what.

William Forrester Jr (13:51.267)
you

Jack Moore (14:08.218)
For everything you do, base you steal, base you get on, I'm gonna give you a quarter. And Henderson said, goes, next thing you know, I'm making like $4 a game and I'm getting ready to take some girl out. So was always about the girls, you know. And then the A's show up, like we're gonna draft you. And he's like, what does that mean? And they're like, we're gonna draft you into professional baseball. But it wasn't his first choice. He's a Hall of Famer. But even in that time, I think he's born at 57, he just passed or 58, he just passed away when he was 65 years old.

William Forrester Jr (14:20.652)
Right.

Jack Moore (14:38.766)
And I don't think that's just a white black thing either. think a lot of kids think it's a lot more enjoyable be noticing the basketball. I mean, you know, you go to an electric basketball game in high school. You are right there in front of everybody. It is a different vision. It's a different field. Friday night football games, being a football hero, it's a different thing. It's different for baseball kids. And so I do think it's maybe a little bit less attractive. Now.

Your dad starts this Little League program. Please tell me everything you can you'd like to tell about your father, his background, his vision, and where that all took the family.

William Forrester Jr (15:18.529)
Okay, yeah, my dad started the league in 1966. He was a physician, general practitioner in the city of Richmond.

and he was well respected and known in the community. So when I wasn't allowed, and he started the league for me or because of me, and when I wasn't allowed to play in some of these established white leagues,

he went ahead and got with some business members of the community, of the black community. And they came up with four different teams. I believe one was in different parts of town, Churchill, Northside, the West End. they put in one in Henrico County.

So they put this league together and that's it started back then. And he just wanted to make sure that every kid had the opportunity to enjoy being a kid and do the type things that kids like to do. And back then baseball was the number one sport and that's what kids like to do. So he made sure that I was able to play and other black kids in the community would be able to play.

And fortunately, we've been able to keep this together. This is the 59th year. Looking forward to next year for the 60th anniversary. So, yeah.

Jack Moore (16:50.742)
Wow, that is great. Yeah. Now, how aware were you that the world was what it was at the time and that your dad went to the links to create another league because of exclusion from, were you really aware of that or did he just kind of say, hey, you we're gonna put together our own league. mean, how aware were you?

William Forrester Jr (17:14.359)
Had no idea, you know.

Jack Moore (17:15.808)
Okay.

William Forrester Jr (17:19.011)
You know, back then, I think integration had, in the schools, had just taken place when I was, when the league was started. I believe schools had just integrated.

Jack Moore (17:24.895)
That's right.

William Forrester Jr (17:33.871)
And I had no idea. just, you I got out, I played football with the guys, I played baseball. We played basketball and we played kickball. This stuff, the fun stuff that kids used to do. And the kid was a kid. So, you know, I didn't realize the racial prejudice that was going on. But I'm glad that

Jack Moore (17:48.713)
Mm-hmm. Right.

William Forrester Jr (18:03.685)
that he was able to start it and all of the kids that benefited throughout the years. after, I guess maybe, I guess probably was in the 70s.

our league actually integrated because when we started it, of course, it was just black kids playing, but we had always been open to any and everyone to play. So we end up having we had some Hispanics and Native American. We had white kids, you know, and it became more of a this is a good baseball program. It's affordable because that was the key, making it affordable. And

They started a bingo operation over in the south side of the city and the bingo operation Generated enough money where we didn't have to charge the kids to play so if you wanted to play and You know in and you just go to your nearest playground We actually provided baseball for any kid in the city of Richmond that wanted to play You would call if you call the recreation and Parks Department

they would refer you to the Metropolitan Junior Baseball League. we had the money to buy all of the equipment, uniforms, the insurance, we provided transportation. So we did it all from that bingo operation that we had and was able to make sure the kids were able to enjoy the game.

Jack Moore (19:42.195)
You know what? The kid up here in the top of the picture, it's a kid pitching in the big leagues that started working with me when he was 11. His uncle completely funded a team down in Chesapeake. It was different levels of travel. And I'm going to tell you what, people take that bingo serious. And he would have nights and this is what they were doing to fund baseball. He told me one night what they were taking in. I'm like, what? And he goes, man, they come in at six and leave at midnight and.

William Forrester Jr (20:07.157)
I'm sorry.

Jack Moore (20:11.344)
They were serious about the bingo and I had no idea the impact that bingo has. I, don't know what that is today, but there's some serious bingo players and that is a beautiful thing that it can fund a lot of good works because, but it was interesting when you said bingo, like, I've seen some programs survive on bingo money do pretty well. Let me ask you this too, before we go much further, I want you to put out, I know your website's available. I've been on it.

William Forrester Jr (20:23.831)
Right.

William Forrester Jr (20:30.559)
In- in- Go ahead.

Jack Moore (20:39.632)
Do you take donations? And I'm sure you do. You do some kind of donation work. How do you raise money now?

William Forrester Jr (20:45.975)
We apply for grants and we just are creative as we possibly can be to try to get donors and funding into the program. Major League Baseball has helped us and over the years given us some money and we coordinate with the Richmond Flying Squirrels. They've assisted. Different corporations have stepped up to help us.

Jack Moore (20:49.202)
Okay.

William Forrester Jr (21:15.251)
Allianz has helped sponsor us here in recent years. So it's been a number of creative and aggressive fundraising approaches that we've used to try to get money. And yes, anybody in the listening audience that has some discretionary spending, some discretionary dollars and wants to get a tax write-off, we're a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Please consider us.

can use the money.

Jack Moore (21:48.25)
Let's give that again and right now. Tell the name of the organization, any websites or anything that you want people to know so they can step up and help.

William Forrester Jr (21:57.239)
Metropolitan Junior Baseball League. The website is www.mjbl.org and any contributions that you can make would be greatly appreciated. We're still trying to find ways to help kids in the Richmond area and then we also do things on a national and international basis.

We certainly need the help. We think we have the right people in place. And Jack, running to you and people like you to help always is wonderful. So we just try to keep time, connecting the dots and trying to make things happen for our young people.

Jack Moore (22:46.018)
God bless you for that work and I want to read something real quick because I want to pivot into something else. Now got a buddy of mine, Coach Distur, we grew up together in Caroline County. He coached Distur for the Texas Rangers and he had Andrew McCutcheon with the Pirates. You know, and I'm just really liking McCutcheon, his energy. I'm watching him on TV and I'm like, you know, a young man, I like the way he carries himself, et cetera.

So I'm talking to my friend Tony one day and I said, hey, you had McCutchen in the minors, right? And he said, yeah. And I said, is he as good a kid as I think he is? He goes, nah, he's a hundred times better. He's like, he's a guy you want to marry your daughter, babysit the kids. I mean, he's just that guy. He's just a fabulous human being. So when this team came out in Chicago a few years ago, the Jackie Robinson West team in the little league world series had their.

title strip because they said they got some guys from outside the region, cetera, et cetera. That led Andrew McCutcheon at that time to write a very interesting article. I'd say everyone in our listening audience read this and really, really read what Andrew McCutcheon, an all-star superstar in baseball, has to say. He wrote in part, I grew up in Fort Meade, Florida. Our town had literally one stoplight. It didn't even have a McDonald's until a few years ago.

But we did have a baseball field and a football field. I spent most of my days in the dirt having fun. From the time I first stepped on up in front of a tee ball stand, I was trying to wiggle my bat just like Ken Griffey Jr. Honestly, it was kind of natural. I was kind of a natural. My granddad used to come out to the field with the big cam corner and tape all my tee ball games. I used to think him and my dad were lying about how good I was back then.

But I stumbled upon the tapes a few years ago and I was crushing balls off the wall and run around the bases like crazy. I was good as a kid. But the thing is nobody outside of Fort Meade knew who I was. Even when I was 12 years old, the same age as those kids playing in the little league world series. When you're a kid from a low income family who has talent, how do you get recognized? Now you have to pay thousands of dollars for the chance to be noticed in a showcase tournament in big cities. So folks, everyone listening.

Jack Moore (25:03.763)
my friend here, listen to what a guy saying who plays in the major leagues, an impactful guy. He's talking about being unnoticed unless you had money. My parents loved me, but they had to work hard to put food on the table. Two parent intact family. know, everybody's interacting, but they don't have a lot of money and there wasn't much leftover. They didn't have the option of skipping a shift to take me to a tournament over the weekend. The hard choices started when I was very young. He said,

I love this. mean, cause it's impactful. Do you want that video game system for Christmas or do you want a baseball bat? That was a choice he had to make as a kid. He wanted the baseball bat. A lot of talented kids my age probably picked a PlayStation. it was, I took the baseball bat. I always chose the new batter glove, but all the scraping and saving in the world wasn't going to be enough for my family to send me an hour north to Lakeland every weekend to play against the best competition.

That's the challenges for families today. It's not about the hundred dollar bat. It's about the hundred dollar a night motel room, $30 in gas money. And he wrote this five, six years ago and a $300 tournament fee. There's a huge financing gap to set it, to get a child to the next level. Thankfully an AAU coach by the name of Jimmy Rutland noticed me during an all-star game when I was 13 years old and asked my father if I'd ever been away on a travel team.

At that point, had barely left the country. I'm sorry. County. My father told me that it was just too expensive. The coach basically took me in as I was one of his sons. He helped pay for jerseys and living expenses, but this wasn't a Disney movie ending. wasn't like Jimmy noticed me and I went straight to the top. That was just the first step. I wanted to just kind of move on to he makes an interesting point. A lot of people probably don't know this. Andrew McCutchen is not a large man. Five nine.

175, 180, something like that. He was a second ranked football player in the state of Florida. So what he goes on to say is as a young black male with a three, a north of 3.5 GPA, he thought his future to get his college paid for was to go to the Florida state, Florida's in Miami that we're talking scholarship hurts his knee. All the money dries up all the scholarship opportunities go away. So he said that

Jack Moore (27:27.036)
He never really considered baseball seriously until he got injured. It's right here. And you know what's crazy? Even despite all the breaks I got in baseball, I probably wouldn't have been a major league player right now. If I didn't tear my ACL when I was 15, I thought I was going to go play college football. Why economics? If I could have been a wide receiver for a D one school and he's a four, three runner in the 40, I would have chosen that path because of the promise of a full scholarship. The university of Florida offered me a baseball scholarship.

it only covered 70%. For those that don't know this, baseball used to be fully funded at 13, long time ago, 13 full scholarships. It got cut 10%, which it means 11.3. So I don't care what school you're talking about in the country, with the 35-man roster, they can only fund 11.3, whoever they are. So where does the money go? The Friday night starter,

It's set up around the world of you have a Friday starter, Saturday starter, Sunday starter in conference each weekend. You put your money in the Friday starter, maybe the same or a little bit less than the Saturday starter. Outfielders don't get a hundred percent scholarships. A lot of people think everybody in college baseball gets a hundred percent. They don't. So what Andrew McCutcheon saying, this is a loss to baseball if he'd ever plays baseball. This guy impacts lives. He's an MVP type player.

But he wasn't choosing baseball first until an injury occurred. Then he went 12th overall and people that really know the money know that he got cheap side. Basically he was in a position. What are you going to do? You're going to go to school and play football. So I don't want to disparage the pirates, but if you see the money, the guys got around him 12th overall, he took what it took 1.2 million to go play baseball. Now he's got to spend time in the miners and see if he makes it. So he goes on to say,

There's only one other African-American player, Josh Harrison, in the pirate organization with me at that time. People have asked me why I think the numbers are declining. There's a lot of talk about kids thinking that baseball is too slow and boring, or that they'd rather sit at home and play video games. Maybe there's some truth to that, but to me, there's a deeper problem going on. It's affecting low income kids of all races. When we met the first night, you and I talked about this, there was a

Jack Moore (29:48.125)
talk between, David justice and, wide receiver Carol, Southern Cal, but Keishon Johnson. You remember that Keishon said, Hey, I grew up in South central LA. All the guys I looked up to were baseball players, Darrell strawberry, Eric Davis. He's going through these names and he asked David justice what happened. And justice said, young kids.

William Forrester Jr (29:57.859)
Right. Right.

Jack Moore (30:14.306)
white, black, or otherwise that are poor aren't playing baseball. You remember that? You saw that same thing. All right. So I just did a whole lot of talking about this, but again, to me, if McCutcheon is telling a story of how he didn't choose baseball first, and then he walks into baseball or he goes into baseball and becomes an all star, there's something wrong. And you hear, he's basically saying it's economics. So everyone that's listening to this gentleman and myself,

William Forrester Jr (30:19.03)
I did it.

Jack Moore (30:43.811)
who love baseball and opportunities and the rest. I think it's a vehicle for kids to have more opportunities. And I think it's something where if you love baseball, it's worth funding. There's no question that I would hope that people would hear this and see this and maybe there'll be some outreach for some people. And you know, you and I are working together now to set up some opportunities to get to some kids. I want to get them in front of some people that might be able to teach them a little bit of the mechanics of the game.

You know, I've been coaching for years and I've been around some really good people. but going with the McCutcheon right there, that article right there, what do you think? What are your, what are your thoughts on what he had to say?

William Forrester Jr (31:25.837)
You know, he's spot on with what he's saying. And, you know, one of things that we do, and this will be our 34th year, we offer the MJBL Inner City Classic. And what we do, we put together an event where we bring kids from across the country. We make it affordable. For years, it was just $50 to play. It's now $450.

But for entry fee for a tournament, you can't beat it. It's gonna be here. Most of the fields would be in Henrico County. We may play in the field in the city, but most of them would be Henrico County because they have the nicest fields in the area. And we bring what we try to do. We try to bring kids that have the talent that can't afford to be on the team.

where they have to pay $1,000 to go play along with the hotel and.

the meals and the travel expenses, which are associated with these high price tournaments. And we try to get college coaches to come in and look at these kids. that's why they go to these other events because they believe that they're being scouted. What actually happens is only one Jack Moore at that event. And that's who the college coaches are coming to see. And you're just there spending

whole lot of your parents' So what we try to do is make this available for them. And we have been very successful in previous years, especially with the HBCU baseball programs recruiting a lot of these kids and giving them scholarships. Like you mentioned, not a full scholarship, but giving them a scholarship and along with what they call a financial package, which is financial

William Forrester Jr (33:28.677)
work study, then the little athletic scholarship will cover most of the expense for the kids to go to school. So we were real pleased to be able to put this together and have that type of outreach. But then a number of the HBCUs, they dropped baseball. They dropped the baseball program because it's become too expensive. So that was that.

Jack Moore (33:51.498)
Mm-hmm, yeah, lot of, yeah.

Jack Moore (33:57.215)
Well, I'll tell you another thing. I actually had a friend, a close friend in Hampton and I pitched that about 10 years ago. And, you know, mean, Hampton's a well-funded school. Hampton does well. And I went over and I said, Hey, have you guys thought about, they're like, it's Title IX. And I never really thought about it. A lot of historically black schools are very high in its enrollment of females. So a lot of black males that are an athlete, you know, they'll go to the state school. They'll go to other private schools and things.

William Forrester Jr (34:01.365)
Okay.

Jack Moore (34:24.926)
But the tendency, so what happened at Hampton, this was the explanation, it made sense. You're going to fill the football team. That's a hundred scholarships. So now you're like, I think it was 68, 32 women to men. So now you have to balance all the scholarship impact among female sports. So they have about every female sport available. And then when you have football and you have basketball, it's very difficult to field another team and make up the percentages you have to based upon.

the population of school male to female. I think the reason I say this thing, I think that's happened. This is what's been told to me that that historically black schools tend to still well, females in general, they don't like junior colleges, community colleges. They want to go to one school and stay four years. So when it comes to historically black schools, females tend to want to go freshmen to senior and go to that one school. And if that's if they're going to go to a historically black school, they do where black males again,

If, especially if they're athletic, they're going to potentially look for other places to go first and then could go to an historically black school. So from the title nine aspect, it's tough to feel baseball, but, but you're right. lot of historically black schools have dropped. When I was at show one years ago, we played Elizabeth city state and they didn't have a team anymore. I think Hampton had a team in the seventies, maybe. And then dropped it like 50 years ago.

William Forrester Jr (35:49.995)
It would have to have been in the real early 70s. I actually attended Hampton in 1976. They didn't have it then though. I think along with the fact that you mentioned, it's economics. That baseball isn't a revenue producing field. That has a lot to do with it.

Jack Moore (35:55.578)
Okay. Yeah. And he didn't have it then when you were there. Right.

Jack Moore (36:10.96)
Yeah. Doesn't make money, right? Yeah.

No, it does. does. Yeah. Basketball football pretty much funds everybody else. Male and female. Yeah. So those are the, those are the, yeah. I mean, you you know, you go to a football game, you get thousands of people show up and they pay and then they get concessions and all the rest. And you just don't get that in baseball very often. So we've identified a lot of things, but I also think, cause we spoke about this the first time we met, I would like to see a national, I'm saying it right here. There needs to be a national

push for Sandlot baseball. Because one thing that came up in what you were saying that, and I think Andrew McCutcheon, I read too. Yeah, I hear this all the time as it's kind of excuse for the, for the present apparatus. So like, oh, well we scholarship young black kids all the time. Yeah. The one that's a super standout kid, but you don't know two years from now, if there's not a kid, if you had at 12, wouldn't be a standout at 14. He just needs to be exposed to the game.

So it's kind of bothered, it doesn't bother me at some level that they will select a black kid every once in a while that, you know, they think he's Ken Griffey Jr. or something like that. But you know, I even heard Ken Griffey Jr. talking, he goes, I didn't need that scholarship help. My dad was in the big leagues. We had money, like I could afford it, but there were lot of other kids that couldn't. So my point is if we don't get baseball more universally on the ground, we're not only, don't think serving kids.

Baseball itself, and we mentioned, I mentioned this before, the game suffers. If you don't have better players potentially coming out of all avenues of the country, then you're not getting as good a game and it's cheating everybody. So I, you know what I'm saying though? There's always that kind of excuse like, well, these talented kids, somebody who steps up and pays for their fare. But what if there's a kid a couple of nights and believe me too.

Jack Moore (38:12.057)
I've been around baseball enough. I've seen kids that couldn't walk and chew gum at 11 and at 14, you don't know who they are. They're just like completely different. And then you see kids at 15 that everybody sure is the next Babe Ruth and at 18, eh, whatever. Um, there's a lot of late bloomer talent and that's what concerns me. The game historically has been made up of guys. People didn't see it younger and then they become something. So the only way we find out those kids is we get them playing earlier.

So, mean, now on the sandlot thing, tell me about the structure of your league now. How many kids are in the league now? The Metropolitan league.

William Forrester Jr (38:55.711)
Right now, our program is stronger on a national basis where we have different organizations that are part of our network across the country. Here in Richmond, it's really an uphill battle. What we have done, we now have a program called SOLE, Sports Opportunity Literacy and Enrichment.

We re-engage that we have Richmond Public Schools and the Department of Recreation and Parks working along with us. And we are trying to get teams, get kids to sign up in the elementary schools.

and have, I think I mentioned this when we met at Virginia Baseball Coaches Association, that we needed coaches. And we're trying to get some college students to come out and coach the kids. We've made a connection with Virginia Union. So I supposed to meet with the people at Virginia Union on the 19th to see if we can get some coaches. We will have a sign up through Richmond Public Schools.

Jack Moore (39:50.241)
Mm-hmm.

William Forrester Jr (40:09.443)
we're trying to get, trying to get some, some, you know, trying to get it started at the grassroots level again, with the tee ball, the coach pitch, the 12 and under. And then while I was at the Virginia baseball coaches association, after I talked to you, gentleman by the last name is Thompson. He runs the Chesterfield RBI program. So we talked for a minute and we're going to try to get some, some of the team.

Jack Moore (40:33.493)
Okay.

William Forrester Jr (40:39.425)
that we put together in the city to play against what he's got in Chesterfield. So it's a work in progress, but at least there's some coals in the fire. We've mentioned it too, we're part of Major League Baseball's RBI program. So we've mentioned it to them. They will back us. They're saying that they could help out with some uniforms and equipment. So we're just trying to push it all together.

It's moving kind of quickly because, you know, baseball season that and I know you already coaching your school is already playing right. But but we're right around the corner. So we're hoping to be able to pull it off to have 12 teams in the younger age group. And then if we can get one or two high school teams, we will. But the level of play is so diluted. They've so they're so far.

Jack Moore (41:18.486)
Yes, sir.

William Forrester Jr (41:39.061)
behind and then they have other things they need to do during the city, including working to make some money. So that's a little bit tougher. But if we can get these younger kids, that's our primary focus right now to start a solid foundation once again with kids understanding the game and having a love for the game. And that's how we're going to get it going again.

Jack Moore (42:06.1)
You know, with C.C. Sebastia, let's he just got in the Hall of Fame, right? I know Billy Wagner, Billy was at the convention. I think it was C.C. Sebastia, Sebastia was the other person who just made the Hall. But I know, I see him years ago, he grows up in LA and he did an advertisement for a while for Boys and Girls Clubs, because he said, growing up in the part of LA, he did, if it had not been for Boys and Girls Club.

I don't know what else I might've been doing on the streets, et cetera, et cetera. Is there a pretty good apparatus in and around Richmond with clubs for kids to come to during the day, especially like in the summer? Do you know of it? mean, is there?

William Forrester Jr (42:50.947)
to as far as baseball goes.

Jack Moore (42:53.99)
No, it's just in general. I mean, they're boys and girls clubs in Richmond to do Excel.

William Forrester Jr (42:57.728)
Yeah, they are Boys and Girls Clubs in Richmond. And then of course recreation and parks, they offer some programs. So they are some avenues for the kids.

Jack Moore (43:09.178)
One thing I've noticed, not to disparage, like how cities operate, but of course, one knock that you hear all the time, we live in, you know, I'm an attorney and I think people think that we litigate now in a crazier fashion than we ever have as a people, but it did seem that when you and I were growing up, finding kids at a vacant lot, might've been city owned school, kids were out there playing ball. Now it's a lawsuit. They're afraid, it's my kid.

You know, chips a tooth and all hell's going to break loose. So the city work is going to come out get off the field. can't be on the field. So that's definitely impactful. And even in communities where you might have condos, townhouses or something, if there's an open lot, there's always a fear if the kids are throwing balls and bats around somebody's going to get hurt. And I do think it's, it's made a difference in the kid of 50 years ago, we grabbed a bat and a ball and a couple of friends and

play half field or, you know, they, it was a limited number of kids. Everybody got to hit and everybody got to rotate around. was some type of a game being played. And I do think it's more difficult. Some of it can be thrown off on kids are staying in the house and playing video games. But I also think it's just difficult for a kid today to get involved with the glove bat and ball and go do anything that's not going to be stopped by somebody or feel fearful that someone's going to get hurt.

So like, I would even wonder if in a boys and girls club, if kids wanted to do a baseball out in the back or something, if they even be allowed to. It's much easier to do basketball. You throw up a hoop, you got a ball, you you can do it. But I really think that kids access to play baseball is somewhat limited. Would you not agree? What you think?

William Forrester Jr (44:54.429)
I don't know, I see a lot of vacant baseball fields in the city and they're in a location where you don't have to worry about breaking the window or anything. that's it, they're vacant, vacant, vacant, yeah, yeah.

Jack Moore (45:06.041)
But are the kids on them?

Right. Right. Well, and that's what I'm saying. I think there's kind of, maybe I'm making this up in my head, but there's kind of the kids go out pretty soon. Somebody in the city trucks will be pulling up saying, I don't have the kids. got to get off the field or.

William Forrester Jr (45:23.715)
I don't see that Jack. Yeah, what I see is the kids...

Jack Moore (45:25.849)
Maybe not.

William Forrester Jr (45:31.711)
not knowing the game, not having the interest in the game. And then the parents don't buy them a glove because, you know, they're not saying, you know, you got a choice between a glove or a video game and they're taking the video game is, hey, don't know what, what do I need a glove for other than going out when it's cold outside and try to keep my hands warm? You know, what kind of glove are you talking about? So we've got, we've got to get them introduced to the game.

Jack Moore (45:34.403)
so they don't go out.

Jack Moore (45:58.249)
Yeah.

William Forrester Jr (46:01.557)
So it becomes fun to them. You know, I talked to some guys my age and they talk about when they were growing up and how they used to get up early in the morning and go to the field and just play baseball all day. So until we can get these kids exposed to the game again, I know it's expensive. That's where you started off talking about the country club type of image.

Jack Moore (46:30.295)
Right? Yeah, that's what it's become.

William Forrester Jr (46:31.461)
So until we can find a way to get them exposed and make sure all the kids have gloves, make sure they learn how to catch the ball, because the first time the ball hits you upside the head, I'm going to the basketball court. So we don't have the teachers out there to teach them how to play the proper fundamentals. And we need to get that and we need to get it going soon.

you

Jack Moore (47:02.317)
Well, and that's why I had this vision. I don't know how it plays out. It's like sometimes you have visions in your head, but I know that kids have many responsibilities to work and things like that. And when I say kids, when you get into younger kids, I do envision a world that I think would be neat. And that's why I brought up the boys and girls club. What if we have a world where there are people at some type of a location that has a field out back or something, and they know every day they can come out and create games.

And just create games. And if the kids can come out and they can just kind of in that world of almost scrimmaging and learn how to play. Absolutely. If there are people out there to teach, I think it just creates a nice summer atmosphere of kids learning to play every day. Now that does take away something that I think is lost. as a coach, I, and as an attorney, I used to help a friend of mine do play representation. I met.

I may have told you this, I met a lot of older scouts that really had a lot of wisdom. This is 25 years ago. And this one guy that pitched in the big leagues in the 50s said to me, goes, Jack, you know what's wrong with the kids today? I said, wait, goes, they don't play sandlot. I'm like, yes, sir. And he goes, all right, do you play in the backyard with a bunch of kids and all the, you we played on a vacant lot. said, yes, sir. And he goes, who made the rules? I said, either the kid that brought the ball, the one that could kick everybody else's ass. He goes, exactly. Like you, you learned your pecking order, right?

William Forrester Jr (48:26.019)
Thank you.

Jack Moore (48:29.29)
You learn what you could do around your, how many, how many adults around Jack? said, none. And he goes, what did you think of your first little league coach? And I said, kind of thought of him as the guy that wrote the lineup. But what he was saying is we all learned to play with each other. And you know how it was. I might not like you one minute, 15 minutes later, you're my best friend. know, we, we have a scrape, a tussle. We get past it. The kids come, you know what I'm saying? It's, it's everybody kind of figures it out and you learn how to play together. You learn expectations of your teammates.

And he goes, now kid doesn't throw unless it's a controlled environment. He's got to have a bullpen with his pitching coach. He's on his travel team. only prepped. So kids just don't play on their own. And when he said that, I thought that's a lot of truth to that. lot of how we learned to play was among ourselves. And then we idolized that Saturday, you talked about.

You wanted to be Lou Brock. You wanted to be Willie Mays. You wanted to be Kurt Flood. You knew who the, you know, you could see yourself. I want to be that guy. So you're envisioning what you saw on Saturday on game of the week. And I drop references to kids. Now they don't know guys from 20 years ago. They've never heard of players from 20 years ago. Have a question on that. How often do you get to take kids to like Richmond squirrels games and flying squirrels? Have you been able to do some of that?

William Forrester Jr (49:52.213)
Yeah, and I'm sure you know Pani. Pani has been wonderful, man, for supporting what we're trying to do here. I know he's moved on to a different role now, more of a consultant, but Pani's been great and he's always reached out, know, got tickets for you guys, bring some kids out. Yeah, so they definitely have had that experience.

Jack Moore (50:01.073)
Absolutely.

Jack Moore (50:19.374)
What do you see? What do you see in their reaction when they go to a professional SAA baseball San Francisco Giants? What do you see? Do they look at that like I think I'd like to for that to be me one day or are they they watching other things or what do you? What's the reaction you see with them?

William Forrester Jr (50:35.127)
You know, I think they just like the exposure, having the chance to be out away from home with their friends. I don't see them actually saying, look at the second baseman. You see, it's a left hand hit her up and he's moved over toward, you know, none of the nuances, but they're having a good time.

Jack Moore (50:55.75)
Right. They're not picking up on you. Yeah. Right.

William Forrester Jr (50:59.843)
And this is what it's all about. And we also have been fortunate to take kids to the Washington Nationals games.

and we've taken them to the Baltimore Orioles game. So and we've done this for a number of years. So, yeah, we try to make sure they get that exposure. But again, for them to really, you know, for it to be more than just a field trip for it to be, hey, you know, I love the Orioles. I love the Nationals. I love the the flying squirrels. And of course, it used to be the Richmond Braves. But

Jack Moore (51:39.27)
That's right.

William Forrester Jr (51:39.715)
They have to, they've got to understand the game a little bit more and want to be a part of the game.

Jack Moore (51:48.966)
Well, William, I really appreciate it. I feel really, really blessed to have met you that night. And I want to say how much it meant to me to hear the story of your dad and the work that he did as a medical doctor, community leader, as a man that loved the game, one to help kids play. That's a beautiful story. Not much better story you can have about your dad. So know that means a lot to you. leaving again, we're going to go ahead and wrap things up.

any other thoughts that you want to convey to people, what you do, or any way they can help.

William Forrester Jr (52:26.095)
yeah, I want to bring up, the MJ 34th annual MJBL inner city classic is going to be July the 30th through August the 4th, where we have teams coming in from, different States to compete. so if, if you, know of some teams that want to participate.

Jack Moore (52:49.486)
What age group? What age groups would that be?

William Forrester Jr (52:50.787)
We go from 10 and under to 19 and under. And then we also do girl softball.

Jack Moore (52:56.153)
Okay.

Very good.

William Forrester Jr (52:59.647)
So if you want to get involved, or just want to come out to see some good baseball and some girls softball, we'll be at field throughout Henrico County. I know we're using Dory Park complex, and then I think Highland Springs, Hermitage, I think I saw JR Tucker. It's a number of the high schools and some of the complexes. So definitely want you to, you know, if you're

know of any teams, quality teams that want to get involved. We love to have them. And then if you want to come out and see some good baseball action, if you want to contribute to help us sponsor some teams to come in. Last year we had four teams from Nassau, Bahamas to come in.

Jack Moore (53:50.645)
Awesome.

William Forrester Jr (53:51.201)
Yeah, and Jazz Chisholm actually played in it one year when he played with the team over in S.O.B. So yeah.

Jack Moore (53:55.991)
Really?

Jack Moore (53:59.477)
I like him. He's got a lot of energy. He's got a lot of energy. He's good player. So, and again, everybody that's listening to us as we throw all this out, we're talking Richmond, Virginia. but as William is saying, this is touching on a lot of places and he travels and some people that watch this might be in Durham, North Carolina. It might be in Memphis, Tennessee, whatever. Hey, let us know, let us know if there's some ways that we can connect.

cause it's, one big baseball world. when you're mentioned kids from islands, kids from far away, a lot of kids are playing baseball. And I think that's one of the greatest, greatest parts of baseball is you meet people from all over the place. And, know, the, the, was the, Mark Twain, think was the, you know, all my presence began to slip away. The more I traveled the world, if you travel the world, you meet a lot of people that don't look quite like you, doesn't speak like you, whatever, but you meet enough people from around the world.

William Forrester Jr (54:27.842)
Right.

Jack Moore (54:55.361)
You got a lot of reference points that you can always look back and say, I met somebody from that great place and they're great people. Well, sir, God bless you, man. I appreciate it so much. I will be in touch with you. We are going to do great things together as far as some instruction and stuff and work with some of your kids. I got that setting up for you. So we're going to have some good time together going forward.

William Forrester Jr (55:01.517)
That's right.

William Forrester Jr (55:17.121)
I look forward to it. And Jack, one more thing I want to add, if anybody wants to get a better understanding of the program, of how it got started and where we are with it today, I've got a book out called the Black World Series. And it's going to talk about the league, about baseball in Richmond and how it expanded into a national program. and the Black World Series is what the Negro League used

Jack Moore (55:20.683)
Yes, sir.

William Forrester Jr (55:47.045)
to call their World Series. So that's why we named it that, to share a little history of the game.

Jack Moore (55:48.737)
Yes, sir.

Jack Moore (55:55.455)
lot of great history there. Thank you so much again and God bless you and your family and I look forward to talking with you again very soon.

William Forrester Jr (56:02.541)
Thanks Jack, I appreciate it. Take care.

Jack Moore (56:04.15)
Yes, sir.