Unraveling the JFK Assassination

Jack Moore (00:00.814)
Two priests who were with President Kennedy say he is dead.

Jack Moore (00:12.694)
information we have from Dallas.

Jack Moore (00:25.198)
That was November 22nd, 1963. was Ed Newman, Edward Newman of NBC News. He was making the announcement that it was official that Malcolm Kildof, who was the assistant press secretary, came out to announce officially at just beyond 1 p.m. that President Kennedy was in fact dead. America had heard quite a few

releases on the radio and TV, which was still 15 years into its prominence that it became. And people started to get the TVs in the fifties and the sixties. So it was a lot of TV, but a lot of people were hearing it on radio and their reactions were varied. And now it's 60 plus years ago and it's back in the news and it's back in the news. And to give my background, I am a licensed attorney.

I went through law school, went through legal training. I got a master's degree in history. And when I did, I wrote on the mass, I wrote on the Kennedy assassination. I actually wrote on this subject. So I am going to go into some things now with president Trump's announcement of a potential release of all the documentation that the government is in possession of related to not only John F. Kennedy, but his brother, Bobby Kennedy, who was a Senator from New York at the time and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. All this release.

documents. What does it mean? Why does it matter? It appears from a lot of the reports, people seem to care to some degree still. I'm of an age where I was a year and a half when it happened. have a great American on here with me right now that I want to get opinions about, you know, she's not Joe Q. Citizen. I guess it would be Josephine Q. Citizen. But what do people think? Like I'm into it. I've studied all my life. So

Laura Giles (02:07.601)
Thank

Jack Moore (02:20.051)
I'm one of the nerdy people that really care a lot about these kind of reports, but I wonder what most people think. So my guest here, Laura, what do you think? Do care?

Laura Giles (02:30.853)
think it's of huge importance, yes. Yeah, because we think that there are secrets. We want to know what the secret is.

Jack Moore (02:39.85)
So that's an interesting point because some historians have said, and I think that there, well, a lot of what we think of history comes from the media available. So if you're 1791 in it, you're pretty much into the newspapers. You you get the printing press, get, you know, fast forward and it's the newspaper. So in 1920, you start to see it, radio and radio is very, you know, and I've always asked people that you ever notice like, you ever noticed it on your newspaper?

Laura Giles (02:50.789)
Right?

Jack Moore (03:09.053)
And I remember this growing up, there would be the call signal or the, the, the numbers and letters from the radio station. And then they eventually came to TV stations and people like, yeah, that's, that's right. People that were first on TV were radio people because the radio people were pretty much owned by the newspaper people. So newspapers on radio stations and eventually own TV. So they often had the same slant on stories, but people went from reading about it to hearing about it, to seeing it.

And this was huge with the Kennedy assassination because having also lived through the Reagan shooting, they were much better in 1963 handling the news of Kennedy's assassination than they were in 81 with Reagan. They're all over the place. They're scrambled around. They're making false reports. They got Reagan dead. He's not, everybody's dead. Everybody's dying. They don't really know what's happening. So given the time, 1963, when you go back from that standpoint,

And look at how the news media handled that event. It was pretty good, but it was also where a lot of things changed. And this is that thing many historians say it's where innocence died in the United States. Once Kennedy's killed, there's just so many things that follow behind it. Now you're a very young lady, so you don't have any memories of these types of things. But when you say, I'm interested in this.

What do you think changes? And I don't particularly think this is going to be the case, but what if it comes out there like, you know what, son of a gun, here it is. This is what the president's never released. DCIA said Kennedy had to die and they took him out.

Laura Giles (04:49.553)
think that's what it says. And I think that's what it says. And I think that is going to create so much disillusionment because we are taught to trust the authorities and put our faith in the authorities. And I don't think that they're trustworthy.

Jack Moore (04:52.581)
You think that's what it's going to say?

Jack Moore (05:08.551)
All right. Well, that being said, I mean, to me, there's way enough out there, but again, I'm nerdy in the field. I'm in that space where I'm looking at things. I spoke at a chamber of commerce event in a small town, 10, 15 years ago. I had a friend like, Hey, come talk to your buddy. And I said, well, you know, there was an operation Northwood thing that was really kind of bad. And that was apparently in the sixties with Kennedy as president.

There were members of the joint chiefs of staff. I think this mostly gets thrown at Curtis LeMay, who was a hero. I he was a war hero, the first order, and he was a pilot during World War II. And he goes on to be four star. I don't think you get it. Yeah, he was four star general, but anyway, he's in that space between the army, air corps, going to the air force. And the story that eventually came, I think it was in the nineties is Operation Northwoods was an actual

set down and let's strategically plan out how to do a false flag of Cuba just shot down an American airline with American passengers. We got to invade. Now the story was it got to Kennedy's desk and say, Whoa, whoa, whoa, what is this? And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to get Cuba first. We need to get into Cuba. We need to attack them. We need a reason why a false flag as they say it. So I said that it's like,

We'll get up on Wikipedia. don't know how accurate that would be, but you can look it up. Operation Northwoods. And this guy gets incensed. Are you trying to tell me that our government would be... I'm like, dude, like, yeah, I am saying that like, and he's really mad. I can't believe you questioned our government. and I'm like, that's not really in dispute. And then of course there's the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which escalates to war in Vietnam and is supposed to be based totally fabricated. Johnson needed an end. He runs in 64.

There was the famous I shall not send American boys into Southeast Asia to do what Asian boys do. And then he sends a half million troops into Vietnam after he's reelected. So he runs it. Goldwater is the warmonger going to drop nukes and Vietnam. And then the first thing he does now is a large part based upon the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which some have said was written before the incident. Then it's supposed to be a firing on the USS Maddox and the Gulf of Tonkin and all hell breaks loose. But my point is.

Jack Moore (07:30.712)
The government has clearly lied a lot. So we can't say things probably about any of our contemporary history, but do you think maybe in the last five to 10 years, anything's happened that made people maybe more questions government? Maybe. I didn't say that. I did not say that. And I'm not sure I heard you say that, but, so this is so Laura, you being again, Josephine Q. Citizen. What if I'm asking you like.

Laura Giles (07:47.825)
Do COVID?

Jack Moore (08:00.992)
What do you think happens in America if they come point blank and say, and let me just back up and say this real quick. I think there's much greater chance that there was nefarious government ties to King's assassination and maybe even Bobby Kennedy's and there was John's.

Laura Giles (08:17.189)
That could be.

Jack Moore (08:18.091)
Yeah, I do think that, but okay, let's say all three, all, all three of them, all three of them have some stains on it, but JFK is clearly three CIA types in a room and they said he's got to go. What's that going to do?

Laura Giles (08:35.867)
think it's going to do two things potentially. One, I think it's going to give people actually more trust in the government because now you have a government who's willing to expose these kinds of things. On the other hand, I think it's going to create less because we have this history of lies to the American people. So I think we're going to have a split.

Jack Moore (08:56.866)
You know, all right, you make a great point there. Is it strikes me because there's no doubt for whatever purposes you already said the C word. can't believe you did that, but anyway, but

Trump being polarizing figure as he is, the fact remains if he's the guy that comes out and tells us the truth, I think you're right. I think there might be an uptick in belief in the government because it was allowed to happen as long as, I mean, he's certainly run on the outsider label. There's no doubt about it. He's trying to say, I'm the renegade. I'm the outsider. I'm telling you it's all fixed against you, whatever, however, know, wherever you are on the, on the Trump thing, one way or the other. if you're going to be the government.

person that comes out and says, it's all rigged against you and I'm here to clean it up. That's a big part of the cleanup, if you say, and let me tell you what happened to your president 60 years ago. And, yeah, I think you're right. I think the overall net effect could be positive because it would be the government finally coming clean, but now it's going to have to be a lot of things behind it that follow that make people think, yup. And you're on that. And,

You're, cleaning house to some degree. So once again, Joseph EQ citizen, hope you don't mind Josephine, but growing up in America, the whole Oswald thing, did you find it hard to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald did it?

Laura Giles (10:27.121)
So my exposure to JFK's assassination was really around the movie, the Oliver Stone movie, which was so convoluted to me. There were so many characters, so many things, plots, and it just didn't make a whole lot of sense to me other than just being really sensational. No, it didn't. It didn't impact me the way that it impacted you.

Jack Moore (10:34.557)
Right. Right.

Jack Moore (10:53.139)
Right. And I'm much older than you. So I was connected to people that had, you know, probably a different view on it as well. So, you know, like they were around to really have that impact. You know, now that I'm coaching baseball and some softball too, and I'm working at the, gosh, I was talking to a kid yesterday and we're trying to compare notes about the state of the NFL, which I think is course is horrible now, but it's like flag football now. But I was like, you know, I think the greater players played eighties and nineties, whatever.

And then I said, well, what year were you born? And he goes, 2004. You know, it strikes me. like, man, this kid, like, this kid literally was not alive for 9 11, you know, and that, all these kids of that age. So I think that perspective. I remember, and you probably do as well. And this is what my parents told me about the Kennedy assassination. In some degree, my dad said about Pearl Harbor.

My dad was a farmer out there in central Virginia, Lynchburg area. And he said, most of the farmers around, where's Pearl Harbor? Where's that? They really didn't, Pearl Harbor in Hawaii did not mean anything to them. But they all remember the Kennedy assassination to the moment exactly. And we had that same kind of history with, with 9-11. Yeah. I mean, you, really do remember exactly where you were, you know, standing. I remember what I was wearing. I mean, I remember everything.

it. It was so burned in. So we have those kind of watershed moments and we do have a tendency, I think with time, like how long after 9-11 did you question that? I'm sure you did, right?

Laura Giles (12:34.737)
No, when it first happened, I believed everything that they were saying, 100%. Yes.

Jack Moore (12:39.805)
Did that change? Okay, all right. And I won't make you have to go down that road either, but why do you think that is with people? Do you think it's that it all fits too neatly?

Laura Giles (12:56.241)
Why do I think what fits to?

Jack Moore (12:57.36)
Like when the stories come out, like one of the major things about Oswald, I mean, really one of the major things is his whole bio is in the newspapers in the five o'clock afternoon edition. And there were people, was addressed in JFK. There were people like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you know this guy was in the Soviet Union, you know too much about him. He just turned 24 years old. 15 minutes ago, he got arrested for the assassination and they're running his complete bio.

in the papers that evening.

Laura Giles (13:29.775)
That sounds a bit hard to believe in the era before the internet.

Jack Moore (13:33.475)
Yeah, absolutely. So I could see where that would feed someone's, I'm not so sure I can trust the government with anything, seems too staged. All right, so take 9-11. Did you feel that same way? Maybe you didn't.

Laura Giles (13:49.303)
No, that was not on my radar at all.

Jack Moore (13:53.463)
I remember I was prosecuting at the time where we, you know, in Chesapeake and I had a morning case and one of the, one of the fellow prosecutors that you know was big into the internet before anybody else was, was like literally watching TV on the computer when no one else had figured that you could do that. So I have a nine o'clock, I went to a prayer breakfast with Oral Hersheiser, the pitcher.

And I tell this buddy of mine, was like, I gotta go cause I gotta be in court. So I head to court. I go and the victim doesn't show up. So I don't know judge accepted my motion to continue it or what, but I'm like, Hey, I grabbed my stuff. Sorry to heading upstairs. So I walk in and this fellow prosecutor goes, Hey, this flew a building into the, to the world trade center. First thought I'm like, was it like heavy fog? Cause I remember the plane during the world war two era that flew into the side of, gosh.

I guess that was the Empire State Building hit about the 69th floor or something like that. Yeah. It happened during the war and it was a big, large plane. I remember it was a bomber type plane or some kind of carrier plane, but it got dense fog and flew into the Empire State Building in the forties during the war. So my first thought, he goes, no, it's crystal clear, beautiful, most beautiful day ever. Okay. That's not kind of weird. there's another one.

I was like, what? goes, yeah, another one just hit and he's watching it on the internet. So we all run to the TV room. So then when they say Pentagon, I'm like, that's it. I really, thought that's it. It's world war three. Something's happening. This is literally world war three. So that was all the thoughts that I had didn't know who the who was yet. But by that afternoon, we're starting to hear who the who is. And then we're finding out that some of the pilots like lived in Virginia beach at the time I was living in Virginia beach, you know, so then it all stayed, you Arizona. There are all these people here.

in the country. So as time went on, all the questions came up about the buildings, you know, the different things, and then everybody has to be an expert on how things happen. Very much like the Kennedy assassination. I'm going to ask you this as my guinea pig, great American here. Do you believe Oswald knowing what you know? Do you believe Oswald could have fired the shot?

Laura Giles (16:03.537)
Thank you.

Laura Giles (16:12.997)
Yeah, I believe he could have.

Jack Moore (16:14.539)
And you think that the results that came about from the shooting are consistent with a lone shooter.

Laura Giles (16:22.213)
You know, it's funny because...

Laura Giles (16:28.803)
Ever since we started talking about the Trump shooting, I've learned a whole lot more about shooting and what's possible. I've seen so many people talk about, know, this is how this shot can happen. This is how this shot can happen if you are a person who, like a sniper. So yeah, I think it could have been him. I think it could have been him as the only one.

Jack Moore (16:52.788)
Well, and I'm putting on your spot. I put you little on the spot here with, but yeah, when it comes to the lore of the single bullet theory, it's most often argued that the people in the, Warren commission got stuck with a timing problem from this Pruder film. So all of you, everyone watching this is probably at some kind of John F. Kennedy assassination background.

Again, the people that are old enough to remember certain things is dwindling, but you probably are all familiar with this Prudence film. And as Laura mentioned, when you're talking about the movie JFK, it was prominently displayed in the movie. And it was prominently displayed that Jim Garrison played by Kevin Costner. This never happened. By the way, sidebar here. I don't know. Are you familiar with the fact that was it Wayne Knight that was in Seinfeld was in JFK?

Laura Giles (17:49.307)
No.

Jack Moore (17:49.877)
Are you, are you okay. And for all the other, you're going to love this. If you're a Seinfeld fan, they did a spoof on Seinfeld about hating Keith Hernandez, the first baseman for the New York Mets. So they come in one day. It comes in Kramer and Newman played by Wayne Knight. I think it's Wayne Knight. Um, the guy that played Newman. So Newman comes in, of course, you know, Jerry goes like Newman. Hello, Jerry. And.

He says something about, I'm going to run into Keith Hernandez because they had become friends, Seinfeld and Keith Hernandez. And Newman goes, I hate Keith Hernandez. He goes, why? And he goes, you tell it. No, you tell it. So he and Kramer go back and forth about who's going to tell the story. And they tell the story that as they were walking across the parking lot, Hernandez spit on them. Right. So Seinfeld grabs a golf club and he goes,

Well, let me see if I can reconstruct this since I've heard this story so many times. And he goes, you're saying that you were a spin on and it struck you between the third and fourth vertebrae. And then it came out and it splashed off Kramer knocking his head back. And the moment they go into it, you're like, my God, this is hysterical. Cause they're doing the courtroom scene from JFK where Garrison goes through what the bullet had to do. And it ends up in the lap of the same actor.

And I didn't know if anybody really caught that at the time. The same actor that played Newman is in JFK in the same position going through the same thing. All right. But in that.

When the Warren Commission gets this Zapruder film, they have 486 frames running at roughly 18.3 frames a second. So it gives them a clock. Now they're making some guesses because it's without sound. What do they know for sure? Kennedy at frame 313, famously most people know this, his head is struck and his head explodes at 313. Now he fought,

Jack Moore (19:56.826)
He from sup Reuters view on the grassy, no on that pedestal. He is looking up towards Elms. I'm at Houston street where he turns on the Elm and then he's blocked for a certain amount of time by the Stemins freeway sign. So kindly, and then Kennedy go behind the sign and then reappear when they reappear. Kennedy appears to have been struck. And then everybody has it a view on.

when Connelly was struck, but here's the deal. They found three empty cartridges on the sixth floor of the school book depository and the vast majority of witnesses said they heard three shots. So if we have three shots and they discover in June of 64, there's a guy named James Tagg who was struck in the face by raised fragments of pavement down on the street. They were kind of like headshot, errant shot, hell.

If we're going to pin it all on Oswald, we have to have one shot, do all the rest. That was the argument. Now, some have said the raised fragment that struck tag in the face down at the end of Elm street where it met main street and commerce and the triple underpass. He was coming up commerce into the city, got bogged in traffic and said, what's going on? Gets out of his car and is standing there like, the president's going by bang. And then he feels something stang his face.

And then a cop comes up and like, man, your face is bleeding. And he goes, Oh yeah, I kind of feel funny. So he was struck by something. He says he then went over and he looked at pavement near that section and you could see where it was a fresh bullet mark. said, now some of said it was from the headshot that the headshot when it fragmented some part of the fragmentation of the bullet came down and struck him. Who the hell knows? But if it is an errant shot that totally misses the car.

And then goes down and strikes pavement and injures tag and the others, the headshot, there's only one other shot left. It's got to pass through Kennedy and Connolly because Kennedy was clear. Kennedy was clearly wounded before the headshot clearly. And Connolly was wounded. So that leaves. then of course, Arlen Specter goes on to be a U S senator from Pennsylvania comes up with the single bullet there and it, everybody drives, it just drives everybody crazy.

Jack Moore (22:21.871)
That's everybody's famous can't happen. Now I thought that for years because I was listening to the people that said it. So here again, as my citizen of great, have great respect for that is a great thinker and can, you know, can hear all these things and form opinions based upon, you know, whatever facts are presented. I've asked people this a lot. I saw two tests on this.

They took the, and it's actually, think the pronunciation is carcano. People said carcano forever, but it's a Mannlicher carcano rifle. It's a 1940 bolt action, World War II era Italian rifle. It's a 6.5 millimeter and its ammunition is metal jacketed, which is a military round. So the 1922 Geneva convention, I believe they come up with after World War II, soft lead bullets hit people and blow their arms.

It goes in small and blows out organs and everything else. So as kind of a way to fight cleaner, nicer wars, they come up with the idea we're going to jacket the bullets. So not only does it have the lead core, it has a metal jacket. That doesn't come up on the street very often. So when they recovered fragments from the Kennedy bullets,

They said the FBI was scrambling around like, don't even know what this is. Like your garden variety shooting on the street somewhere. We don't see these kinds of bullets and they really don't know a lot about what the bullets do. So I saw testing where they fired into pine board and then dug Mr. Bullet out. When they dug out the bullets, well, they fired the rifle directly into pine boards. How far do you think the bullet penetrated?

Laura Giles (24:12.113)
through the whole thing.

Jack Moore (24:13.994)
Well, what I'm, what I'm saying is it's like they have a pine log. I'm sorry. didn't clear. I didn't set this up. It's like a pine log and they went down on one end of the log and bam fired. Then they went and X-rayed and say, where's the bullet? So, the reason I'm saying that is, all right, all right, let me set this up better. The single bullet theory says this bullet strikes Kennedy high in the back below kind of, you know, up in the upper shoulder region, it comes out of his throat and nicks his tie.

Laura Giles (24:19.318)
okay.

Laura Giles (24:23.776)
shoot.

Mmm.

Jack Moore (24:42.271)
There are those that defend the Warren commission and say the Nick and Kennedy's tie was clearly made from the inside of the tie, from the inside to not. It didn't hit the front. came out the back. So it means that Exodus throw now it's out in flight. It strikes Connolly right below the right armpit. It comes out two inches below, or I'm sorry, just below his right nipple blowing out a two inch hole.

Laura Giles (24:55.761)
Mm-hmm.

Jack Moore (25:08.381)
It then strikes his right wrist, which he has kind of over his left thigh. It passes through and fractures his wrist and then lodges in his thigh. And they find a bullet on his stretcher that the stretcher guy, the orderly says, I think it was, wait a minute. I don't know. He couldn't remember who was what, but he didn't think that the stretcher where the bullet was found was Connelly's, but a bullet nearly whole was found on a stretcher.

So that became commissioned exhibit 399, which is supposed to be the single bullet. Now they did some testing with modern testing here a few years ago, fragments from Connelly's wrist were recovered and they could go into the base of the bullet lead and recover particles of lead. And they found the composition to be identical, which means the bullet could have been from a batch of bullets that match Connelly's

wrist fragments doesn't mean it's the bullet, but it means it could be the bullet. You follow? Yep. So they took fragments out of Connolly. They matched it to the tail end of the bullet, but people to this day say no way can't be whatever. I thought that. So when I'm writing my thesis, the movie JFK actually had a screenplay come out that was annotated. was, it was amazing. So you could see in the script,

Laura Giles (26:13.766)
Yep.

Jack Moore (26:37.107)
You know, the different actors saying this, saying this, saying this. And then at the bottom, they're like, this was based upon this was in some of it. They were like, yeah, we later found that to be bunk. What we put in the movie. Absolutely BS wasn't right. We turned out to, we would be wrong. And in the screenplay it gets into every supporting thing, et cetera. In the back of this screenplay, it is a lot of editorials from major newspapers throughout the country on and on and on for years as a result in response.

to the movie JFK. And one guy that wrote was a medical doctor educated at UCLA, Los Angeles. And he said, hey, I'm a doctor. I was coming out of medical school. I was a hotshot, top of my class kind of guy. And I got a chance to be on the House SELECT Committee on Assassinations. I got a chance to be on that. And when I'm flying to Washington, I'm like, they're gonna make.

movie about me, I'm going to go in there and disprove all the BS, the warning commission was wrong. He goes, there was only one problem with it. Once I started seeing the evidence, I'm like, wait a minute, this is the only thing that makes any sense. And this is what he said. They saw all of the diagrams of Connelly's wound and his clothing. Connelly's wound under this armpit was exactly one and a quarter inches long.

You want to hazard a guess at what the length of the bullet was exactly one and a quarter inches. So, and this is one of the thing, a team of father son team 10 years ago, or now more than 10 years ago during the 50th anniversary, back to what I was saying, they fired into the pine board. They dug it out 40 inches in. I saw another, they dug one out of, they did blocks.

Laura Giles (28:24.251)
Hmm.

Jack Moore (28:29.126)
So there were one inch blocks and they fired it and then they cut the tape between the box and they kept pulling. When they pulled the bullet out, it was perfectly pristine. It didn't have a mark on it. No, it didn't have a mark on it. So it went through 40 inches of pine board wood and was dug out without a mark. So the other one I saw when they fired into the log, went like 43 and they had to x-ray it to find it, but they found it same thing. So this doctor says,

We started doing some research on wounds and all this type of thing and found that bullets that pass through objects tend to go into yaw. They turn end over end. So this team of the two guys firing into the pine board, they shot through gelatin blocks, which are there to stimulate human tissue. And they got it on 3000 frames per second film at slow motion.

Every time the bullet came out and got back into the air, it started going in over it every time, not once or twice every time. So then they put a board up fired through and they show it. And then right there, it was a keyhole entry every time. Every time the bullet passed through the gelatin, the ballistic gelatin to simulate human tissue, it flies in over it. So this guy's like, Hey, we got a jacket with a hole in the

like this, not neat and circle like a regular entry wound. And when people have criticized the single bullet, they go, Hey, that bullet doesn't have any marks on the. I mean, a matter of fact, they literally critics of the warning commission and the war and the warning commission did this. They fired bullets directly into the wrist of human cadavers and yet mushroomed the bullet. the nose is completely destroyed and all that. And they're like, see, see that right there shows that Connelly's wounds couldn't possibly have come from that bullet.

I said, except for the fact that went through Kennedy, went into y'all and went through Connelly's chest first. So it's like a little buzzsaw turning end over end. By the time it came out and struck his wrist, it could have been tail end sideways, which is also true. When you see the bullet, always show it critics show it in pictures. Like this is by finger. They show this picture and you're like, that bullet doesn't have a mark on it. When you turn it sideways, it's bent like this. So it doesn't roll on the table easily.

Jack Moore (30:54.819)
It is actually deformed somewhat in the middle. Last thing I'll say on this. A doctor testified before the Warren commission. No, sorry. House select committee 15 years later, because they got into the issue of, brother, you're a doctor. How do we have so little damage to the bullet? And we have all these wounds to Connelly and Kennedy and all kinds of madness. Why isn't the bullet more deformed?

Laura Giles (30:55.835)
Mm.

Jack Moore (31:21.398)
And this made perfect sense to me too. It's in the same article with this doctor from UCLA. Well, he was convinced by the wound. He's like, I got it. Once I saw the keyhole entry, that means the bullets in yaw, it passed through something. It had to be Kennedy. But then this other doctor was asked, how do you have a bullet with this little deformity do this much damage? And he goes, well, there's three thresholds to bullets with velocity and bone.

And he goes, that bullet came out of that rifle anywhere between 2100 to 2300 feet per second. It's out the muzzle. Now it's out into the air. It's in Dealey Plaza. It's headed towards Kennedy. He said, by the time it strikes Kennedy's neck, back, upper back, it's anywhere between 18 and 19. It's decelerated somewhat in flight. Now it's into Kennedy. Coming out of his throat, he goes, I'll give you a 15, 1600 feet. Now it's in yaw. By the time it strikes Conley, his chest cavity,

It breaks his fifth rib. breaks off a piece of his fifth rib. Once it comes back out in the air, anyone's guess 11, 1200 feet per second. Now it strikes his wrist and lodges in his thigh and it's spent. So the guy said, here are the three. You take that bullet and you fired directly into heavy bone like Kennedy's head. When his head explodes, the bullet then fragments the shell or the casing. The jacket of the bullet will fail.

Then all the soft lead sprayed out all over the place, which is what you find in Kennedy's head X-ray is you see a constellation of all this like dust. It looks like it's a soft lead. When that bullet struck his, his, his skull, it fragmented the bullet. And then you see the fracture patterns within the brain or within the skull that shows where the entry was back center. Okay. That gets into that, but that was a bullet striking nothing else and hitting

bone and I guess your skull is about as hard as any part of your body. So it strikes skull. So back to the thresholds. He said one, take that bullet fired directly into bone. You fragment bone, you destroy the bullet, all hell, it's just, it's going to be destruction to both. He goes, but you decelerate the bullet enough. You might break bone, do less deformity to the bullet. That's what's going to happen. Less deformity enough to break bone.

Jack Moore (33:43.337)
But not a lot of deformity to the bullet because now it's been spent somewhat. You get to the slowest threshold, it'll bounce off bone. And I'm like, that makes perfect sense to me. So he goes, explain Connelly. He goes, it's just that it is a decelerating bullet in the body, striking some bones with enough velocity to break the bones and then head on to its next destination without doing a lot of damage to the bullet.

That's what convinced me. But the bigger thing that convinced me for all you listeners in 1993, 30 years after the assassination, no one had ever discovered this. They did a computer enhancement. They took two actors. Kennedy was six feet, one half inch. Connelly was six, three. So they took the car dimensions. They set up chairs and everything. And they had two actors look at every frame of the Zapruder film.

And made whatever movements they made and fed it into a computer. Once they had all this movement stuff in the computer, they could then go 360 around up, down sideways and create a Zapruder film in 360. You with me? Right. Makes sense. Right. So in examining that, they discovered something they'd never discovered. Josiah Thompson wrote a book and I love that. I just think he's phenomenal guy to listen to.

Laura Giles (34:55.375)
Nope.

Laura Giles (35:00.529)
Thank

Jack Moore (35:08.271)
And I think he's a true believer. believes a lot. I think he's a wonderful man. And he wrote a book, Six Seconds in Dallas. And he did a lot of examination of the frames in the Pruder film. And he believed that in the 238-240 range, again, the headshots 313, Kennedy's showing reaction by raising his hands at around frame 225. So if you got Kennedy reacting 223-ish to 225-ish,

And Conley's reacting and this is what Josiah and a lot of other researchers believed that Conley's not doing anything till around two 40. And that even Conley supported. Conley examined the frames for life magazine said, I ain't get hit by the same bullet. Cause look at me. I'm, I'm reacting further down the street. So everything's happened left to right. If you get in your mind's eye, Kennedy reacting something with Conley headshot, then they're out of there. So as it moves from left to right down the street,

question becomes, does it appear Connelly's reacting at a different time than Kennedy, which a lot of people bought. So back to failure analysis, this group that does computer enhancement or enhanced images and computer generated things to examine, to test, they're doing a mock trial for the American Bar Association. And they actually did a mock up. It was Oswald alone. And then one where the single bullet theory did work and didn't work. And they're doing that. But

While they're examining frame by frame and having these actors move, somebody goes, Hey, look what? Connelly's lapel is six inches off his chest on frame 224. Nobody ever noticed that. So regardless of what Connelly thought said, believed his jacket is jumping at the point where the bullets known to have passed through his chest off his chest at 224. Guess what else is happening at the exact same time?

Laura Giles (37:07.769)
What? Hmm.

Jack Moore (37:08.058)
Kennedy's arms are coming up. So there is a person that I got this for a college class I was teaching. I pulled from the internet, a guy had put like frames 220 to about 230 and he's got it running on a loop. And when you watch it, when I was teaching my students, I'm like, train your eye directly between the image of Connelly and Kennedy. As you see Connelly and Kennedy, train your eye. And you see this and you see that. And you see this and you see that.

And if you're really fair to the facts and you look directly in it, when you see Kennedy start to raise up his arms, it's the exact same time Connelly's lapel flies forward. I mean exactly. So you can sit there go, but it can't happen bullets. Can't they can't, can't. Okay. We can't, but it's interesting now about that reaction to there's a guy named John Latimer is a physician who supported the Warren commission. He wrote a book. A lot of people laughed at him.

But he wrote a book and he got into all of the physical aspects of the Lincoln assassination, 1865 and John F. Kennedy. And he showed something. When it comes to Kennedy's neck wound, it was very, very neat and circular and the doctors there. And this is some of stuff I can't explain away. I really can't. The doctors tended to think it was an entry one because it was neat and circular. But what Latimer did was.

He took some ammunition and he did some disgusting things like you know, like a goat's leg or something something that was about the size of a man's neck and then put a tight collar on it and fired through it and each time he did it because the collar supported the tissue you got more of a neat circle instead of the blown out eggs that you normally get so he says I'm just saying it came through right where the collar is. Okay, so he got into that

And he got into how the jacket raised up because people think that the jacket Mark where the bullet struck Kennedy in the back is way too low. But when you see the pictures, he also had very heavily muscled shoulders. He was a swimmer and the jacket does tend to ride up your points on your clothing and where they align. Like, for example, I think most people think you just kind of think this. just think, you know, I'm spit balling here.

Jack Moore (39:31.211)
But people have a tendency to think, yeah, there's the back of my collar. There's the front of my collar. Men's necks are like this. I mean, when you, I mean, when you think about where in space and time the back of your collar is to your throat, it's more of a slant. So a bullet striking Kennedy high from the school book deposit, depository window on a downward trajectory doesn't mean it's going to come in. It had to come in flatter. So you get into all those arguments. And again,

The thing about, Latimer again, Latimer looked at why Kennedy reacted the way he did. Many people that think frontal shot, they go, well, clearly Kennedy got shot in the throat and went, my, they got me. And now he's got like this clutch in his throat. That's not at all what he's doing. If you look closely and you're fair to what you're looking at, his fists are bald and he's like this. So Latimer finds a French physician in 1899.

that identified what he called the Thorburn's position. And the Thorburn position had to do with like child would fall out of a tree and have spinal trauma. And when they found him the fetal position, the knees are up, the elbows are splayed and they drop in a knot. It's a neuromuscular reaction to trauma. Well, the bullet just passed by his spine. So the argument is Kennedy is this, he's not this.

And what's interesting is when he goes to this position to the degree Jackie, who doesn't know what's going on, grabs his left arm and starts to pull it down. This one comes down too. Then headshot lights out and then he's, then he's, he's out. But I think another major point that was made about the headshot is he wore corset. He wore back brace. He had six inch ACE bandages around his thighs, supporting around his back, a complete spine.

Laura Giles (41:21.978)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (41:29.692)
like apparatus to support. was from his sternum down. Pepper Jenkins, one of the doctors that was there at, he said they couldn't believe what they took off of him. When they started to work on him, like he wears this every day. And he said, when people are asking, why didn't you just duck the second shot? He goes, he could not possibly have gotten down. And when you want to know why did he make the kind of backward movement in the seat, he said he couldn't go forward, which

again is consistent with the reverse jet effect theory. All right. I've said all that. Have I convinced you now the single bullet theory is correct?

Laura Giles (42:03.781)
Well, what do you say about the people who are slowing down the Zapruder film and says that the driver turns and shoots him?

Jack Moore (42:11.091)
You know, it's funny, I just got that from a friend the other day that I really do care about, but he was like, Hey man, hey, know, some of, you know, some of my friends who were into some conspiracies, they said it was the driver. I'm like, Oh my gosh. Okay. I got to do it. I was like, okay. I said, all right. It did get out. Well, first of all, this is Pruder film. It was purchased by life magazine in the day following the assassination from Abraham's of Pruder. First, they bought the.

print rights and then the motion picture rights and blah, blah. Life gets it and life won't allow anyone to see it. Then when Jim Garrison is trying Clay Shaw, he subpoenas lifetime life to get the Zapruder film and gets it. Well, once they get it down to New Orleans, some boys one night, you know, in a room were like, let's make some copies and they make some very, very poor copies. And now the poor copies hit the street. And this is a lot of what led to

This is a lot of what led to the House Select Committee on assassinations too. I didn't really mention that, but it's true. A lot of it has to do with Geraldo Rivera, who in 1975 brought on Dick Gregory and Robert Groton, who were Robert Groton was big and he was a consultant to JFK the movie. He was a big camera photograph guy relative to the assassination. He got ahold of one of those Pruder copies, one of the bootleg copies.

And they put it on national TV and that all hell breaks loose because people see the backwards snap of the head or what appears to be a backward movement of the head. So, you're, I see you ask again about, about the driver's shooting. Right. Right. Right. So, my friend who said this, I showed him a really scrubbed up high definition, well-enhanced,

Laura Giles (43:49.487)
The driver is shooting him.

Jack Moore (44:04.271)
video on YouTube of the assassination and what you clearly see on the very good copy, the very, very good copy, what you see is it's the reflection of Roy Kellerman's head. So in the car, in the driver's seat's William Greer, 54 year old driver. He's in the front, Roy Kellerman the head of the details to his right in the passenger seat. Directly behind the driver's Nellie Connolly.

To the right behind the passenger seat is John Connelly in jump seats and then Jackie and John are in the back. So from the Pruders vantage point, he's looking across Kellerman. The shot is panning across Kellerman into Greer and Greer during the shooting does the look over the shoulder like what the hell's going on in the back seat. When he's doing that in almost perfect timing, Kennedy's head explodes.

So when you get the really bad copy, I mean, really grainy, can barely see anything. The view is, or the impression can become, because the first time I saw it, somebody told me to look at it. I'm like, holy cow, that is kind of weird looking. It looks like Greer is driving. like, hey, something's going on in the back. Then that reflection off the top of Kellerman's head looks just like a silver, like a nickel plated pistol. And he fires a shot and then goes back to drive.

The is, if you see the cleaned up, the better version, not only can you tell it's Kellerman's head, you can also see the Greer's hands are on the steering wheel, both of them. He's not holding a pistol. And I told my friend, no, no, no, you're wrong, man. You're wrong. My cousin told me he should. I'm like, okay, okay. I'm like, we can't go anywhere from here, right? It is what it is. you know, so other things though, the, you know, this is kind of where I started on the logic thing.

Jack Moore (46:02.638)
I did a show, you know, we used to do some radio and I did a show with a friend of mine and I get there, my friend of mine finds out it's going to be a Kennedy conspiracy guy and he goes, hey, it's your show, take it. So I get this guy on, he's written books, he's pretty famous in the world of conspiracy people and he's telling me, I mean, after a while, basically says, the only person you know in Dallas, Texas on the day of the assassination that is innocent, that you're absolutely positively sure is Lee Harvey Oswald.

Isn't that fair to say? And he goes, well, I'm just saying, like, no, no, the only guy, everybody else is up for grabs, but the one person you can absolutely positively be sure of is not the shooter is Oswald. And then I said, okay, what was Oswald? And he goes, he was a Patsy. And I'm like, bang, bang, bang. And now he's discovering he's in trouble. Yes. I knew he ran because he started to recognize the ramifications of things and all. I said, okay, okay. He ran.

Because he knew they were going to pin it on him. Yeah. He went out and killed a cop. don't think he killed the cops. He gets in that whole thing, but here was my question. My question to him. I'm going to ask you. I will. I asked him, I said, what did he know about the assassination before the shooting? He goes, nothing. I'm going to ask you. If Oswald goes to work that day and all the guys in the smoke field room, they have decided this is the guy they're pinning it on. Right.

Laura Giles (47:31.505)
Okay, okay.

Jack Moore (47:31.53)
Right. What's the problem when he shows up for work?

Laura Giles (47:35.621)
Well, he wouldn't have a gun.

Jack Moore (47:38.154)
No, I got the one I'm talking about. You're pinning it on Oswald. How do you know at 12 30, he's not on the street? Hey, Jack Jackie, it's, Lee. It's Lee. It's so good to see you in Dallow hell there. Yeah. Okay. Now remember after the shooting, we got him on the sixth floor by himself firing a weapon.

Laura Giles (47:41.797)
Yeah.

Laura Giles (47:46.661)
That true, yeah? Yeah?

Jack Moore (48:01.779)
And the guy's like, well, I say, no, I'm asking you if you did this whole thing, right? You got together, you got it. And we're going to pin it on Oswald. Didn't somebody raise their hand? Like, how the hell do we know he won't be standing with 20 people during the shooting? How do we know he won't be on the street? Isn't it interesting that the one person no one sees during the shooting is Oswald? He's the only one that nobody knows where he was that time. There were people that said he was near the lunchroom earlier.

Laura Giles (48:15.462)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (48:29.492)
But nobody sees him during the shooting. And I'm just thinking that would be a high risk. I thought the same thing with the OJ symptom thing. When I remember the first thing came out about Furman and these racist cops are all pitting it on poor OJ. You're at the scene and that and Furman and that whole thing about what he said to the screenwriter. I've never quite been sure. Was he just saying, this is the, you know, the body talk of the guys around the precinct or was he saying it for himself? I never could, but you know, he got pinned the racist and all this stuff and it.

basically discredited all of his other testimony, Mark Fuhrman, right? okay. Well, I saw him on an interview one time where he said, when we got there, she was such a bloody mess. We didn't even know who it was. We had no idea who she was. There's blood all the way to the street. Her head's about cut off and she's laying there. We go in the house, there's two kids sleeping. We're kind of like, who else is in danger? And then they're looking through IDs and they finally realize who she is. Now.

Laura Giles (49:02.833)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Jack Moore (49:27.774)
Johnny Cochran to some degree as a defense attorney played this game of a bunch of, you know, racist cops came in and they wanted OJ. So they started making up the story to pin it on OJ. And I thought to myself, I'll ask you it's midnight, June 12th, 1994, whatever it was. What's the problem for those cops showing up if they're going to start pinning it on OJ.

Laura Giles (49:50.351)
Well, same as you said before, they don't even know where he is.

Jack Moore (49:53.018)
Exactly. If he's in Des Moines, Iowa speaking to the Rotary Club in front of 1500 people and he's been out there two days, you got a world of trouble if you start pinning on OJ. I don't know that anybody thinks that way, but I know, damn sure if a firm is like, hey guys, yeah, we all hate OJ, right? Hey Mark, where are you going with this? I think we ought to start pinning it on OJ. I'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, where is OJ? I hadn't thought about that. Like, how do we know where he is? So that's kind of, but people were like, I know they started pinning on OJ from the first moment. I'm like, really?

I don't know. I don't think they would. And I think it's again, very risky to pin the assassination on a guy that you don't know what the hell he's going to do during the time of the shooting. So anyway, that, he never could quite come up with the reason to tell me, you know, why a guy ran, got a pistol, killed a cop, pulled his pistol out again when he got arrested. So those are the things that, that, um, I don't know. Again, I just think something comes up sometimes and I think, okay,

Laura Giles (50:30.289)
to.

Jack Moore (50:48.572)
How much do we know at a particular point in time and how risky would it be for people not to be on the same page? Which is another thing I asked this particular researcher. I said, let me ask you this too. And said, once he goes, there were shots from the front. yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, there were shots from the front, grassy knoll. The headshot came from the grassy knoll. Okay, okay. I said, back to the guys in the room setting up the assassination. Did anybody say,

know, chief check this again. We're going to pin it. Yeah. Oswald, the guy up in the building, but we're firing the fatal shot right from the front. That's right. From the front. What then we're going to do body alteration, cover up, you know, what we're going to do is years of cover up to cover up the fact we shot from the place, not where the guy we're pinning it.

Laura Giles (51:35.322)
Well, but there has been some sort of cover-up, which is why the records haven't been released. So what is that cover-up?

Jack Moore (51:39.786)
yeah!

Jack Moore (51:43.449)
No, no, no. What I'm saying, I agree, but no cover up as in we didn't want world war three. I do think if the government isn't the most nefarious actors, there may have been, think, God, Lyndon Johnson made horrendous human being. I'm sure as everybody thinks, J. Edgar Hoover, probably not much better. I don't know, you know, spin that, way you want about these people who were. Well, you and I have been in situations. We've been in courtrooms. We've been around people that, you know, not at the very, very top.

But we've been in people around people in communities. They're like looked up to politicians and you're like, my God. When I, when I was doing radio and I saw people come in that were at pretty high levels of government, used to go, my God, this person gets votes. I that's not trying to play like sour grapes, like, you know, but for the great I'd be there, but, yeah, some of them must kind of like, they're kind of greasy and that's whatever. So those people are in high levels positions and things.

But I do think that there is a possibility that they truly did say, okay, here's what we got. We're one year out from the Cuban missile crisis. And we know on the Warren commission, because we have Alan Dulles, we've been trying to kill Castro and we've been trying to do it with the mob. And I don't think American really handled that right. And I don't think that looked really good for us. So it's Oswald's time, it's over. I think that there's something that could have been moving that.

Because what if Oswald did it because the Soviet Union told him to? What do you think the US wants the next day? I think they want World War III. So I think that that argument has been made. I think it, I think avert in World War III would definitely be on somebody's mind in that situation. So the question would be, would the government lie to the American people to avert what would kill hundreds of millions? Yeah, maybe.

Laura Giles (53:16.56)
Right.

Jack Moore (53:37.899)
It's like such a bad thing to do either, either, you know, to spare Kennedy or to eliminate, well, yeah, to take away whatever justice could come to Kennedy and his family. So as not to have World War three. But do you buy, don't seem to buy that totally.

Laura Giles (53:55.333)
I don't know. There is a reason. I have no idea what that reason is.

Jack Moore (53:59.523)
You see, I always wonder though about, they're on YouTube, you can listen to them on YouTube, I'm sure there are other recordings. And I don't know whether this was foresight. It might have been a great deal of foresight. I don't know though, because it seems almost, Lyndon Johnson taped all of his conversations on the phone. And then they got released to, yeah, everybody did. mean, Kennedy did a lot of his too, but I know that Johnson did all of his.

So.

When Hoover calls Johnson, they've been like neighbors for 30 years. Johnson's been in the House and Senate since the 40s. maybe, no, I guess 38, I think, was his first term in the House. And then he wins the US Senate in 1948. He called him landslide Lyndon because he won by like 13 votes. No, precinct 13 showed up and put him just over. It was all, and John Connolly was involved with it.

So he was a dirty politician. There's no question about that. with Lyndon Johnson, but Hoover calls and he goes, he's like, you know, or J. Edgar, we, we, we're not only like neighbors, we're like brothers, you know, I didn't know. in DC I respect more, you know, with my life than you. And he goes, well, Mr. President, appreciate that. I really appreciate, know, there's a bunch of bullshit. They're back and forth with how much they love each other. And he goes, what we got there, J. Edgar. He goes, it's Oswald.

It's Oswald. He's alone. He did the shooting. You sure about that? This is like 48 hours after the shoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got, we got it all. It was Oswald. He says, he's some nutty kind of commie. He's a commie. He's a nut. And then Johnson says, do you think they were trying to get me too? So there are a lot of people that believe that Lyndon Johnson was behind the assassination. So did he have the foresight to say, so, Hey, there's, there's a tape where I was asking.

Jack Moore (55:59.7)
Hoover, if I even thought maybe I was a target, I never had anything to do with it. I don't know. And, cause I thought about that same thing. This is going way out. Remember in the, in the Trayvon Martin shooting and death, one of the things CNN and a lot of the, a lot of the media was running was, I don't know if you ever saw this, but the George Zimmerman, right? The shooter in the Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida.

Laura Giles (56:00.753)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laura Giles (56:27.163)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jack Moore (56:30.751)
One of the things that CNN was wearing out was wearing out was he called 911 and the dispatcher said, sir, sir, are you following this young man? goes, yeah, I'm trying to find him. Stop, stop, stop that right now. Right. And then surely he didn't stop. You remember that whole thing, right? Well, I got a hold of a video on YouTube. They probably scrubbed it now, but it was less than 48 hours after the shooting.

Laura Giles (56:47.941)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (57:00.828)
And they had not charged him yet. And it was a police video. It was up and they got him. They're like, Mr. Zimmerman, you want to take us through everything that happened? And he goes, sure. Yeah, I'll take you through. So he's this, he's that. And the guy in the hoodie looked at me and said, Hey, this, what are you doing? You know? And he said, then that's when I called nine one one. Now, again, it's not even nightfall the next day. The shooting was at night. It's in February.

But it's daytime, late afternoon probably, latter part of the day. And he's telling these cops, it was at that point I took the phone and called 911. And he goes, what did dispatch say? He goes, well, they said that you guys would soon be out. Did they say anything? And the guy literally said like, did he say, well, they told me to stop. They asked me if I was following him and I told the dispatcher yes. And he said, stop. And then Zimmerman says, so when the dispatcher told me to stop,

I turned around and started walking back towards my car. It was when I was walking back towards my car, I then again saw him and he goes, Hey, MF for why do you keep following me? And then they got into it that's what led to the final altercation. But I thought that was interesting because would he have had the foresight to say one day CNN is going to be running something about how I didn't cease and desist when they told me to.

Laura Giles (58:22.001)
you

Jack Moore (58:25.912)
Let me make up a story. I don't think so. I think the kid was telling the truth, but CNN hammered that every now and know, damn whether the dispatcher told him to turn and walk away and he did not. So when I saw that video, I was like, wow, that's interesting because he's walking them through the very locations. And he said, well, my car was parked back there. So when dispatch said, ditch it, I turned and started going to the car. And that's when I walked into him again. And if that's true, then he didn't.

Laura Giles (58:29.765)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (58:55.74)
Because that was a big part of why he should burn in hell and everything else was he didn't follow orders of the dispatcher. But then when I see the video, it's again, it goes in my mind like, he know to say that? Did Lyndon Johnson know to say, were they shooting at me too? I don't think people have that kind of foresight. So there is a whole, there was a couple of books written on it. There is a whole theory that Johnson eliminated Kennedy because he wanted to be president. And you know, it is interesting. It happens in Texas.

Laura Giles (59:00.88)
Right.

Laura Giles (59:20.325)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (59:25.094)
But here to close up things, let me just kind of, this is what's always, here comes my stream of consciousness on this, because I always found this fascinating. Okay, the shots are fired, Kennedy's dead, 24 hours later, or 48 hours later, Oswald's dead. Now, I've listened to also Lyndon Johnson with the members of the Warren Commission, well, namely Richard Russell.

So Richard Russell was a segregationist from Georgia and that was his boy. That was his mentor. That's the man that raised him in the U S Senate, Richard Russell. So he calls, you can find this on YouTube, he calls Richard Russell and he goes, Hey Richard, I want to tell you something. I just got a press release out. want to read it to you. Lyndon Johnson has now named under executive order 11 to 19. used to know the number. There will be a commission formed.

It will include the honorable Earl Warren, this goes Richard Russell. And he goes, Whoa, whoa, whoa, Mr. President, whoa, whoa, I can't do this. And they get into it. And he said, well, I'm going tell you one thing. You're a patriot and you're my guy on the Warren commission and I can't arrest your ass, but I'll damn sure make sure. And he's threatening with the, you know, like he's going to say, I'm not going to stick the FBI, but I'm going to get your ass in there. And then Russell's like, no, no, Mr. President, really I'm too busy. And he hates Earl Warren. I don't trust that man.

Earl Warren's because of Brown versus Board of Education. He thinks he's a California fruit, you know, that's turning the country upside down. He's too liberal. So he goes, I don't trust that man. I hate that man. I can't work. He goes, no, no, no. You by God are going to work with him or I'll come over and kick your ass. And so Johnson's telling the U.S. Senator he is going to be on the Warren Commission. Well, he clearly doesn't want to be on the Warren Commission. Earl Warren, I've already told you, he didn't want to be on the Warren Commission. Who else is on the Warren Commission? How about Gerald Ford?

Laura Giles (01:01:18.157)
I don't know. President.

Jack Moore (01:01:21.443)
Alright what's he later? Under what man was he vice president?

Richard Nixon? And what does he do as soon as Nixon resigns? He pardons Nixon? Isn't that interesting? So who defeated Nixon in 1960?

Laura Giles (01:01:30.415)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (01:01:47.735)
John F. Kennedy. He defeated Nixon. So here's the timeline. JFK defeats Nixon. Nixon's out to pastor. He runs for governor in California in 62 and loses again to Jerry Brown's dead. And now he's like, he wrote the books, The Six Crises of Richard Nixon. He told the press, won't have me to kick around anymore. So he's sulked away until 68. Okay. But Nixon's out there. Who do you think planned the entire Bay of Pigs invasion?

Laura Giles (01:01:51.281)
Okay.

Laura Giles (01:02:09.425)
to.

Jack Moore (01:02:17.515)
which went south in 1961. Who do you think was behind setting that up? Richard Nixon. He's the vice president under Eisenhower. So they put in the plan to do the invasion into Cuba in 61 and then oopsie, Nixon wins. So they show up at Nixon's compa- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Kennedy wins. Kennedy wins, oopsie, Kennedy wins. So now the CIA types and other state department people show up at Kennedy's doorstep in December of 60.

Laura Giles (01:02:22.253)
Not yet.

Jack Moore (01:02:46.583)
before he's inaugurated, like, ah, sir, we got to let you in on something. What's that? He goes, we're invading Cuba in the spring. I'm sorry, what was that? They thought if Nixon wins, plans are. So who directs all that? Alan Dulles. Who else is on the CIA? I mean, on the Warren Commission, the director of the CIA, who's fired by Kennedy for the failure of the Bay of Pigs. Who else is on the Warren Commission? Alan Dulles. He's put on the Warren Commission. So you've got Russell, doesn't want to be there.

Warren doesn't want to be there. Alan Dulles, who was fired by Kennedy, Gerald Ford, who later pardons Nixon. That's kind of crazy. Now another person's hail box, Cokie Roberts from TV, her father, where's he from? Louisiana. How does he find his fate? How does his life end? Plane crash in Alaska. They never find him. I never thought about this. I'm watching a story in a few years ago and they said,

Laura Giles (01:03:31.088)
Yep.

Jack Moore (01:03:46.153)
Here's an untold tale most people don't know. And it was the woman said it in the movie, you saw JFK, Walter Mathau played Russell Long. Russell Long was son of Huey Long, the Senator that was assassinated. So in the movie, Russell Long was like, yeah, Jim, Jim Garrison. I never believed that one commission crap. And it gets Jim Garrison back into investigating the Warren.

Laura Giles (01:03:55.408)
Yep.

Jack Moore (01:04:14.441)
I mean, investigating the Kennedy assassination in New Orleans. So this woman was saying, you know, it was never Russell Long. It was Hale Boggs, who was on the Warren Commission. So she was saying what happened was Hale Boggs went to Jim Garrison and said, I'm sitting on this commission. I'm sitting on the nastiness. I know what's going on, but they'll kill me if I ever let you know, basically. So Russell Long went, I'll take it.

Cause he was that kind I'll take it. I'll say it was me that got you thinking about it. So this was her take. Boggs is given Garrison all this information from the inside. Then mysteriously after Clay Shaw is acquitted in the trial in New Orleans, a couple of years later, Hale Boggs dies in a plane crash and he can never find him. Can't find the remains or anything. So this one was bringing up an interesting point. Cause I was kind of like, yeah, this kind of strange that

Boggs is from Louisiana and could he have been feeding garrison stuff? But as you go through it.

This is the other key, key point. Who pretty much was involved in the Bay of Pigs invasion.

CIA types and Cubans, the Cubans that wanted Cuba back, right? Who broke into Watergate?

Laura Giles (01:05:33.051)
Okay. Yeah.

Laura Giles (01:05:38.799)
Yeah.

Jack Moore (01:05:39.736)
and Cubans, the plumbers, the plumbers were literally the same people that did the Bay of pigs invasion. Look it up. I'm dead serious. The ones that broke in, they took Nixon down. the people, some people have said, Hmm. And some people even tried to tie Nixon to it. That what Nixon was in the Watergate hotel warning was the dirt on whether they knew he.

Laura Giles (01:05:41.529)
I don't know.

Laura Giles (01:05:51.083)
Hahaha.

Jack Moore (01:06:08.146)
had been involved in the Kennedy assassination. And then when the whole thing went down, he had dirt on Gerald Ford, who'd been on the Warren Commission, so he named Gerald Ford the vice president because when he resigned, Ford would clearly pardon and give him what he's won. More more historians I've seen, there's no way that Kennedy, that Nixon actually liked Kennedy. Like, I mean, they had been somewhat friendly, because they went into the house together in 47, they were both elected in 46, they went to each other's weddings. I know, well, I know that

Richard Nixon was at Jack and Jackie's wedding, but you know, all that stuff about it is interesting though, the people that ended up on the Warren commission, like an Alan Dulles who sits there last thing on this, promise. So a guy wrote a book a few years ago. I reached out to him one time when I was teaching, he wrote a book on the Warren commission, just about the Warren commission, about what it was like, how it went down. And he said in the opening hearing Wagner car.

Laura Giles (01:06:45.967)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jack Moore (01:07:07.056)
was the attorney general of the state of Texas. Kennedy shot November 22, the Warren Commission's named November 29th, one week later. Then they start having meetings. So in their first meeting, Wagner Carr, the attorney general of the state of Texas, had reached out to Jaylee Rankin, the chief counsel to the Warren Commission, and said, you got a problem. goes, what? goes, there's a rumor running all over.

this town that Lee Harvey Oswald had identifying number, I think it was 172 with the FBI. He was a paid informant. He had FBI ties and they're like, gosh. So he goes to Earl Warren, who apparently the way the book is written and just general accounts was a little naive. He was a world war one veteran, patriot, all that stuff. but apparently he had a little, he was a little bit naive and maybe at times about things.

So they come to him and said, Hey, it's come to our attention that maybe Oswald might've been an FBI agent. And he goes, okay, well, we'll have an emergency meeting. So they go in and he goes, okay, put this on the agenda. Just call J. Edgar Hoover, get him in here, get him under oath and we'll find out. And they said, Alan Dellis goes, he's not going to tell you the truth. And they said, Warren shot. He's like, I'm so, excuse me, run that by me. goes, if he's a good agent.

He's not going to tell you the truth. So Alan Dulles says in this meeting, if he's a good FBI agent, he will not tell you the truth about Oswald's potential as an FBI, whatever. And they say that those, they that were there like warns like come again. I'm sorry. You're saying that Hoover will come in here and lie to us. And he goes, yeah, I know I would. And he goes, if you call me in and ask me for dirty dirties on the CIA, I would lie.

Laura Giles (01:08:54.129)
you

Jack Moore (01:09:03.16)
Absolutely not. And they said the whole crew was shocked that he said that. Well, during the whole Warren Commission, he knows that the CIA had been trying to enlist the mob to kill Castro. He knew. And he never raised his hand and said, you know, one angle we might want to go down to get a really thorough investigation is, is this blowback from trying to kill Castro? Maybe somebody got wind. He never brought it up. He played dumb.

But what was interesting is in the first meeting him telling Warren, I wouldn't tell you the truth. Are you kidding? If this was CIA stuff, I wouldn't say it. Which Warren could not fathom, but now do I know that Dulles was necessarily dirty? I don't know. I don't know exactly what he was, but he's an interesting guy to have there. Yeah.

Laura Giles (01:09:46.545)
you

So what do think the records are going to show when they're declassified?

Jack Moore (01:09:54.176)
that Oswald was a known person and they basically flubbed up and never took him seriously like they should have. think that's all it is. I really do. I don't think that it would be in a government document that they were behind killing Kennedy. The government was behind, I don't know who the hell would put that to paper. Why would you put it to paper? But do I think that there's plenty to show? hell.

Laura Giles (01:10:02.777)
Okay.

Laura Giles (01:10:15.781)
Yeah, okay, that's fair.

Jack Moore (01:10:21.311)
Well, you know, the famous note thing too. This is the Hosty thing. So Hosty was an agent in Dallas, James Hosty, and he was directed to chase Oswald around because they knew he'd come back from the Soviet Union. And it was like one of those, know, you got a desk, you got a potted plant picture of the family, and you got like a little check bark each day and on a rotational basis, go harass Lee Harvey Oswald.

Go find out what he's up to. And you never could find him, but he kept finding his wife, Marina. And so it is legend that Lee Harvey Oswald walked into the Dallas field office on or about November 8th and said, where's Hostie? And they're like, he's out in the field right now. And he goes, will you tell him he better stop?

Laura Giles (01:10:50.449)
you

Jack Moore (01:11:15.914)
threatening my wife and all this kind of stuff and they're like, well, sir, you know, he can come and give me a pad or something. That's the way it's supposed to go down. And he writes out, according to the receptionist, keep this up and I'll blow up the building. According to Hasty, it was like, I don't appreciate your harassing my wife. Pretty much done. That was it. So it all depends on how dramatic you want to make it because I think the receptionist said blow up the building.

Well, here's what we know. And it was depicted in a few movies. It was depicted in the movie Parkland. It's been shown and it's true. This came out in the 1970s during the church hearings, Frank Church, when he did the hearings, this came out. Osti was called in to testify. Oswald gets killed and Osti's in his office because they're all still panicking Sunday, but Oswald gets killed and they said Gordon Shanklin.

who was the director of the field office in Dallas is like, hostage, get your ass in here. And comes and he goes, where's the note? And he goes, I kept it in an envelope and he goes, I want it gone. And he said, he started to tear it up or something. And he goes, no, get out of my sight. You take that, burn it, flush it, whatever, get it the hell away from me. So he did. So he sits on it for several years and never says a word. And then eventually

It is found out. So he testified to the, um, I think the house select committee testified as well. I'm pretty sure it started the church hearing same timeframe, late seventies, but I believe it is very conceivable that your M1A1 standard issue FBI agent in 1963, did you found out the guy that they were supposed to be doing a better dot job of surveilling and left a note.

shot the president, they'd burn that note because J. Edgar Hoover would tear him apart. Right? Yeah. I just think that's self-preservation. The conspiracy people have taken up smoking guns, smoking gun. They knew that they would have used it against Oswald to prove he's the crazy guy that they said he was. The only other reason to destroy is because they were in on it. They were in on it with Oswald. I think it was merely, if I'm Shanklin,

Laura Giles (01:13:17.776)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jack Moore (01:13:41.467)
that director of the Dallas office. And I got a boy out there who didn't follow up on the fact somebody came in and made a threat and you didn't follow up. So in one of the movies, I think it was Parkland, but I believe it was Parkland that came out about that. The way they depict it in the movie, Shankling comes running in cause he knew about the note and goes, Husty, what did you do? And he goes,

I get threats of, but the guy just killed the president and you didn't do anything. He goes, what if I was going to chase around? he's like defending himself. If I had to chase around everybody that threatened me, goes, but this one killed the president. We can't live this down. they have, and then they show the later scene after Oswald's dead. like, he's dead. Get rid of it. I think that's perfectly consistent with people that are scared of Hoover. I don't think that necessarily mean that they were involved in anything else, but I would like to know what the note said.

Laura Giles (01:14:30.523)
Yeah, sure.

Jack Moore (01:14:36.817)
Did it say blow up the building or did it say more like, I don't like you talking to my wife.

Yeah. All right. So what questions or thoughts do you have? Closing.

Laura Giles (01:14:49.845)
I just really can't wait to see what's in it. I think, you know, it's got to be something big because you wouldn't keep it a secret all these years, especially after the first time when Trump said he was going to disclose and then he didn't.

Jack Moore (01:15:03.104)
Yeah. No, I think you're right there for sure. That piece with the Palatano, you know, from TV, I think it's Andrew from TV, but the retired judge, he, you know, he's a character. I, you know, I like, I like to listen to him, you know, like a lot of what he has to say and all. And I thought it was interesting. said, Hey, I've never seen Trump scared. Never, never seen him nervous about something.

And when he said, if you saw what I saw, you wouldn't have either. I was like, wow, that's saying a lot. If you saw what I saw. So I don't know. I do hope though, as you sort of stated that if we do find out even something bad,

I don't know. Like I heard a commentator the other day saying, I'll cheat and say this from another commentator. I think they're going to come out and say something which may be true. That's less than horrific. And then everybody's going to have to cover it up again. And they're just going to say, and it could be the truth. Like it really could be the truth. Just that they knew of Oswald and didn't do enough to stop him, you know, and stop right there. That's it. But that's not going to be good enough. And therefore they'll go up. There they go. They keep right on line. So I don't know. But I do think what I said earlier,

find it hard to believe that they'd put smoking guns out there in government chains. I why would you do that? Like memo, no memo to director Laura. We killed Kennedy today. Stop. Hope no one finds out. Stop. We're going to take out Oswald tomorrow, who we set up as a Patsy full, you know, yeah. Hope that document doesn't get discovered.

Laura Giles (01:16:34.033)
You

Laura Giles (01:16:40.045)
you

Jack Moore (01:16:51.51)
Right?

Laura Giles (01:16:52.571)
I don't think that's in there.

Jack Moore (01:16:54.154)
Okay, so we're going to cover this matter and more coming up in our upcoming episodes and see if we can tie all this stuff back to some discussion of how history really, I don't think anything new ever happens. This has been going on since the beginning of time. People are people that do, you know, they just have greater technology to probably do more damage, but that's about it. If in fact we are actually part of some kind of real universe here or whatever we're in. So.

Anything else in closing?

Laura Giles (01:17:25.841)
Thanks for tuning in.

Jack Moore (01:17:27.362)
Thank you. Bye bye.