Super Bowl 59 & The Best Football Players of All Time

Laura Giles (00:11.694)
Sorry.

Moore to Consider (00:13.088)
you'll be able to edit out the beginning right because it's already started recording you'll be able to edit out chop off the front right okay so three two one welcome to another edition of more to consider and now of course we have to talk about the super bowl i'm with my good friend laura and laura how much of a football fan are you

Laura Giles (00:20.93)
Yes.

Laura Giles (00:38.094)
Not so much.

Moore to Consider (00:40.779)
Okay. What I want to talk about is sort of a cultural phenomenon. Like I'm in Virginia Beach, Virginia last night with some friends I'm doing, you know, I'm coaching college baseball. have a game yesterday. And then after the game ends, everybody's scrambling around. We go to three restaurants and in Virginia Beach in the town center area, they're all shut down. I'm walking up to the door. There's a sign, Hey, close to the big game. I'm like, wow, the restaurants are closing. As there's even been talk.

of everybody takes off work on Monday because they're hung over from all the Super Bowl parties. It has become very Christmas like or Thanksgiving like or whatever, you know, holiday you want to throw in. It is a cultural phenomenon. I'm old enough to remember all the way back to the beginning. And I remember seeing a picture at Sports Illustrated that was really unbelievable. The guy went to like we just completed Super Bowl 59 and this guy had a picture from Super Bowl one.

Los Angeles Coliseum, Green Bay Packers, Kansas City Chiefs. There's probably one tenth of the stands filled seats were 15 bucks and the stadium's not sold out by a long shot. It's this conversion of the leagues. Now there's been the merger. People don't really care so much about a Superbowl between these two teams, the old American football league and the established national football league. And this guy showed a picture that sports illustrated posts in 1967.

And that January 67 game, and there's two guys for the Packers and two guys for the Chiefs at the coin toss with the referee. Then he showed like Super Bowl 50 and there's 250 people standing around the circle. There's four guys, five guys from one team and the other, but there's all these dignitaries. There's all these people, there's the band and he goes, look at what the Superbowl has become. And that's just one slice or illustration of kind of what it used to be like.

and what it is now. I don't know. I didn't count the halftime show last night, but 45 minutes. It felt like it used to be 15 minutes at halftime. They'd go to two commentators. It said the obvious green base running the ball really well. Okay. Now everybody's breaking it down. Then we have to watch all of this Superbowl stuff. Now, of course, God bless Prince. think his Prince purple rain in the rain.

Laura Giles (02:47.734)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (03:03.741)
I was Super Bowl like wait, I think time frame anything Prince did as we always say we love Prince We need to do a whole show probably on our love of Prince What I want from the listeners people that come into this and see it. I want you to rip me apart Be nice to Laura. You don't have to say anything about what Lars takes are because This is just a nice conversation between two friends about How is the game today?

I want to kind of talk about how is the game today because in my many, years, I don't think the games is as good. don't think it's as good. It's evolved as I am in baseball. Something's kind of changed. It's become, I think far more entertainment. And not that I'm naive enough to think it wasn't that way early, but man, the production value now, what they have to do to get the game off. I think something's lost in the game and nobody can hit anybody, which we'll talk about as well.

So last night, it's a blowout pretty much. I don't think anybody saw that coming. If anybody's honest and something that the other elephant in the room that everyone must address. Oh, I think it needs to be addressed. I've been watching on YouTube as a platform. What's YouTube been around 15, pushing 20 years. There have been countless posting of people saying the whole league's rigged. It's all, it's all rigged. Um, it's for the entertainment purposes.

Laura Giles (04:04.546)
Yep.

Moore to Consider (04:30.626)
There is an old story. I was actually talking to some younger people and they're like, yeah, I hear that now, but it's never been like that in the past. And I'm like, There, there is this argument. Superbowl one Green Bay beats Kansas city. As I mentioned, Superbowl two Green Bay beats the then Oakland Raiders pretty good. 33 14, I believe was the score. Then Superbowl three is famous for Joe Namath and the upstart New York jets defeating the 13 and one.

in regular season, Baltimore Colts. That was considered one of the greatest runs by a team. They actually lost one game to the Cleveland Browns and then, you know, beat the hell out of in the playoffs. So now they're in the Superbowl. They're 18 point favorites. And 19, it was 68 season. So it's January 69 and the Jets in kind of a ball control type of game wins 16-7. Baltimore doesn't score until late in the game. There were players for the Colts for years, it said.

something happened. I don't know. Cause in my position, I played my game, but boy, I look around and I saw some guys. I don't think they were exactly playing the game straight up. So the rumor was, and I don't know why I'll give the explanation. I don't know why this would be the rumor was Pete Roselle, the commissioner of the NFL Lamar hunt had run the AFL when they do the merger, there's supposed to be this fable about the mergers done 1970. So going back.

The AFL starts in 1960. The NFL under another name started in 1920. By 40 years later, when the AFL starts, the NFL without question tries to do everything it can, everything to crush the AFL. They don't want the AFL to exist. As a matter of fact, the Minnesota Vikings were established and ready to go as an AFL franchise, stolen. Then when Lamar Hunt put in the Dallas Texans in Dallas,

They brought the Cowboys in. They had not talked about expansion into Dallas. They're doing everything they can to destroy the league. Where things start to get nasty is they're both drafting. They're drafting an AFL draft and an NFL draft. And there's all kinds of nastiness going back and forth. There are guys being captured. There were stories of the AFL teams going to find the superstar college player and holding them up in a hotel room so the NFL guys couldn't get near them.

Moore to Consider (06:56.86)
Then when Joe Namath comes out of Alabama, he's drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals and the New York Jets. They give him $400,000. Today it's 400 million in today's dollars. was crazy. All hell breaks loose. What are we doing? We're giving a guy 400,000. It's never played the game. It's Broadway Joe. But now that Joe Namath is coming under that kind of money and guys are starting to steal players. Pete Goat, no, Charlie, Pete, no, Pete.

Pete and Charlie Gogolak were both guys that kicked in the NFL. Actually, Charlie kicked for the Redskins, Pete kicked for Buffalo in the AFL, and then ended up with the Giants. That was, I think, really the big final straw. The leagues were saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, when you start stealing our players back and forth, we can't handle this anymore. Let's do a merger and let's have a common draft.

So then it was set. Let's play a championship game. in the 66 season, and you saw some of this last night on the news or being in the broadcast, Packers were on their way to their second consecutive NFL championship. And now they have a Superbowl. They win that. And then the next year they come back, they win the third NFL championship in a row. You may have seen that flash last night. Last team, I believe only team in NFL history to win three consecutive championships where the Packers.

One was just an NFL championship, the 65 season. Then they won the 66 and they won the 67. But in the last two, 66 and 67, they won the first two Super Bowls. So there's an argument that Roselle kind of went to Baltimore and said, if you don't let the Jets win or we don't rig this game, no one's going to believe in the parody of the league enough for this to take off as a merger. I don't know.

I don't think that really matters because the merger is already done. They're going to, by 1970, the two teams or two leagues are going to be combined under the national football league with the AFC, the former AFL, 10 teams and the former NFL 16. And they said three teams have to go over and they basically threw out some incentives and Baltimore, Cleveland, and the Pittsburgh Steelers all went over to the AFC. So now you have 13 and 13.

Moore to Consider (09:19.103)
Eventually, with the progression of expansion, 14-14, then it was 16-16, and we get to where we are with 32 teams, 32 franchises. Over a period of 30 plus years, that happens. But the argument is, the league was actually becoming concerned that if Baltimore beats up on the Jets three consecutive years, people are going to go like, it's the Mickey Mouse league, the AFCs, they don't stand to be in the NFL, but the Jets win.

Then in Super Bowl four, the Chiefs repeat or not repeat, but they come back after the into the fourth Super Bowl after their first appearance and they beat up on the Vikings pretty good. And if you saw that game and I remember it, the Chiefs were better. I don't I think the leagues were starting to find parity. The Jets game. There are some concerns as one play in particular, lot of people point to. And I've seen the film, The Colts Run, sort of a complicated

reverse type of flea flicker type of play. You know, the flea flickers hand the ball, flip back to the quarterback. They do kind of a Statue of Liberty where the guy goes by Earl Morrill, the quarterback, and back to him. And then Jimmy Orr runs this deep route to the flag, you know, to the corner. They've run it before and scored. And there's famously this film of Jimmy Orr waving his hand. He's wide open and Morrill throws back to the middle of the field and throws a pick. So that's the one his teammates, it didn't look so good.

There's later rumors, even in the early 2000s about John Gruden leaving the Raiders to go to the Buccaneers. And then they play the Raiders in the Superbowl with Callahan as a head coach who had been an assistant with Gruden. And I mean, I've seen the film with Jerry Rice. It's on YouTube. You can find it. Where Rice was like the night before the game, they changed the, um, the whole, uh,

approach to the game, the game plan, the game plan changes overnight. And all of Gruden's players knew all the Raiders calls that were in from the year before and they get blown out. So there was a lot of guys from the Raiders that were like, that didn't look quite right to me either. So these rumors have been going on for some time. So we lead into last night's game and I've talked to a friend here that asked no way the league is cooked. There's no way. And I'm like, well, people believe it. They do.

Moore to Consider (11:42.77)
There's just a million sites where people are saying, this doesn't look right to me. Always looks like everything goes in the chief's favor. They keep beating the bills to get to the Superbowl. now what are your take? do you think? know, as again, Josephine, Josephine Q. Citizen with probably not a lot at stake in this argument, you know, as far as pro football goes, what do you think?

Laura Giles (12:05.422)
I see why people say that. It looks a little weird.

Moore to Consider (12:08.126)
It's kind of, yeah, it's, it's one of the things that really woke me up was 10 years ago, I saw a guy post and it was two teams and one quote unquote was supposed to go deeper in the playoffs. And the other wasn't, that was like the mindset supposedly of the league. And the guy says, take a look at this, do what you will with it. You decide and watching enough football, you know.

runners down knee elbow contact kind of know how far a player goes before the ball gets spotted. You have the two side judges that, and I remember the exact terminology on their positions, but there's two officials on each side of the line of scrimmage and they kind of go running together and decide where the ball get to. Now the superimposed line and the mechanics behind that, the technology is pretty crazy. It's pretty weird. It's pretty, pretty nice. I don't know 30 years ago or so when they started doing this.

You're watching on TV and you see a bright yellow line. It's like the yard to gain. It's the spot you have to get to the first down. So this running back household name running back great player. He goes in and you know, there's all this pile and in your mind's eye, you're like, man, that's right on the line. He's on the yellow line. So the official comes in. Use one of my trusty footballs. He takes the football and it's like, you see the ball in that spot.

And he kind of nonchalantly moves it back and he just, he, he moves it back. yard might be a little bit of an exaggeration, but it's a pretty good distance. And then the guy who posts this says, tell me you didn't just see that. And I went, man, that really looked weird. And then they're like, too bad. Fourth down didn't make it. And you're looking at it and it's kind of hard to unsee. You're like, that didn't look right. So been a lot of that with the bills and the chiefs in the AFC championship game.

There's an argument, the receiver for the bills was at the line to gain, um, 4,000 inches. Alan goes on the quarterback sneak from some angles. You know, you're kind of having to guess where the center of his one seven on his body is with the ball. And it looks like he's kind of a cross. Nope. Sorry. You're short. And then that's a pivotal moment. And of course the bills don't maintain the drive. They lose the game and then all hell breaks loose again, social media. I think it's cheating. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.

Moore to Consider (14:38.607)
But the league survives. I'm with a group of friends last night. We're all watching the game. Like, well, what do you think about those theories now? I'm like, well, the flip side theory might be now either the chiefs were allowed to play straight up and they're just not that good as everybody thought. And the Eagles were just that much better, or has it been flipped in the other way because the league has decided now everybody's onto us. And if the chiefs win a third in a row, nobody's going to watch pro football anymore. So either one of those things is open.

And once again, I mean, what I'm saying here is, does it really matter if it's true or not? After a while, if you reach a point of nobody believes in the product, does it really matter? So now we have in the last one, two, three, four, five Superbowls, Kansas city wins three, loses two. Sorry. In the last six, they've been in five. They won three, they lost two.

So five out of the last six Super Bowls, they'd been the representative for the American football conference. Has there ever been runs like that in the past? Yeah, some of the famous ones were San Francisco 49ers, which came very close to having a chance to three Pete. Famously, Joe Montana was sacked and I think his wrist was broken. He wouldn't have completed the game. Then with time to run out, Roger Craig famously fumbles and Lawrence Taylor recovers. Giants get down, kick a field goal.

on to beat the Bills in Super Bowl 20, 20, I'm sorry, Super Bowl 25. In that situation, Super Bowls 23 and 24 had been won by the 49ers. And it looked like they had a really good chance to potentially repeat. Cowboys had been in two and then not the third. The Steelers had two book-in, they had a two win, two years out, two years again on the other end of that. They won four in six years.

So there's been some runs and I think that Steeler run is probably the most impressive, although the 49ers are in the conversation, which brings a point about.

Moore to Consider (16:49.432)
You and I've had this discussion. I'll have it with anybody who'll listen to me. I'm kind of looking at the general where American society is. So I'll ask you this question. Where do professional football players come from?

Laura Giles (17:03.864)
College? High school? I don't know. Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Moore to Consider (17:05.441)
And neighborhoods, they just come from the streets of America, right? So I am the slowest human being, least athletic person you'll probably ever meet. I played college baseball, but I mean, I'm not super athletic, but I go to coach college. want you to think about what I'm getting ready to here. Not just you, but everybody listening. I go to coach at a college and I...

End up having this friend who's a linebackers coach at the foot at the junior college where I'm coaching. Love this guy. He was just a lot of energy. Great guy. Played at East Carolina. Knows everybody. He knows all these guys in the NFL. He knows them well. So we're in a flag football game together. And he goes blowing by me like I'm standing still. We're playing with the faculty staff team against the team that had won. It was all the dorms were divided by floors.

they had won the championship, they got to play us. So Tyrone goes running by me at 116 miles an hour. So we're talking, I kind of know some of the lingo when it comes to, you know, 40 times like Tyrone, what'd you run in the 40? I bet about a four six coach, about a four six. Like you ran a four six 40. He goes, yeah, yeah. And I said, did you get NFL looks? He was, well, it's kind of a tweener. I'm a five 11, two 25 linebacker. I was a little bit thick to play safety and too small to play linebacker, but I could run. I'm like, okay.

So we're another conversation. He goes, you know, it's crazy coach. So what's that? He goes, I started playing pickup football in my neighborhood in Mississippi. He went to Mississippi Delta community college before he went to East Carolina. And he says, we played in broken glass in a vacant lot. I'm 12 hitting 18 year olds. I'm tackling 18 year olds when I'm 12. Right. How many guys from his neighborhood, from his neighborhood in small town Mississippi.

Do you think played division one football? Eight, eight, eight. goes, he was our coach. said, I eight of my guys from my neighborhood plates. Three played in the NFL from his neighborhood. Right. But that's, if you look at my friend, Tom house, you can talk about in baseball. He was one of like five guys from his neighborhood that played in the major leagues. I saw the phenomenon when I was in Virginia beach.

Laura Giles (19:01.592)
I don't know.

Laura Giles (19:11.756)
That's awesome.

Moore to Consider (19:24.758)
I go to work in an indoor facility. meet young David Wright. I meet young Mark Reynolds, Josh Rube, Michael Kadair, you know, and all these guys ended up getting drafted. So Tom did a study on it. told me about several years ago, it's called clusters. It's kind of like little kids growing up think, the people on TV playing professional sports, like they're from a different planet. Then somebody makes it. And then another guy makes it, or it kind of becomes, well, he can do it. Maybe I can do it.

And I saw that culture shift. were two players in professional baseball from all of Hampton roads. When I got there in 93 in a few years, we would have two, three guys in the first round and it all started. So what they started doing was a guy named County towns and we all dearly love you passed away several years ago with cancer and Gary Lavelle, buddy of mine that pitched in the big leagues. They got in and started doing the instruction. Then they started doing the travel thing together. So they started putting these really great.

players, mingling in together, they're best friends and they go to different high schools, maybe in the area. But you see the phenomenon firsthand. It's like guys are getting drafted, guys are having success. So I think that's part of it. And if you have Tyrone that was telling me these stories in a vacant lot playing on broken glass with his buddies and he's having to tackle kids six years as senior, that guy plays in the NFL or he plays major college football.

If he's in the house and he's playing a lot of, you know, video games, he's probably a pilot one day or, he's probably a fighter pilot, but I don't know that he's going to be an NFL player. Also with all the fears that have come about from head injury, you know, there's, there's parts of the country where I think it's going to be more affluent families. going to like, Junior's not going to play football. It could ruin his brain. A kid from a poorer background that might see an opportunity for seven figure salaries one day, eight figure salaries.

He's going to play football. So you're going to see more and more regionally, there will be football, but you won't see it probably as much. So then everything about professional football or any other professional sport, it comes down to raw numbers and the development, athletically, physically of kids. So all of that being said, my favorite mantra argument to fight with everybody is my eyes tell me, and this is what I want you to blow me up. Get it, get on here and tell me I'm wrong.

Moore to Consider (21:53.603)
But I think pro football peaked in the eighties and nineties. And I don't think it's as good today with rule changes. You can't hit like you want. So today I wore my Sean Taylor Jersey and I have my over here. I have my Sean Taylor towel. There it is over there. I was at the last game that Sean Taylor ever played. played the Eagles and I was at the game after his death, where they, it was.

tearjerker is one of the saddest things I've ever seen. And I have a replica helmet of Sean Taylor. So I was a big fan of Sean Taylor. He's dead at 24. I think he is by far the greatest football player I ever saw. I never saw LT live. I was at one risk in Giants game. He didn't play that day. I saw LeVar Arrington good. I saw Chant Bailey good. In the past when I was a kid, I saw Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, Johnny Unitas. Sonny Jurgensen was my favorite player.

Those are all jerks and helmets up top. So I've seen a lot, but I think that between better strength training and conditioning and my friend Tyrone falls into that timeframe. And he's playing at East Carolina in the early to mid eighties. I believe it was probably the greatest blend of kids playing multiple sports, being outside, running around.

Local football coach friend of mine said, well, they're all air conditioning babies now. And I don't want to do the, walked uphill to school six miles, you know, or, you know, six miles each way uphill, but we didn't have air conditioning in my house. So when the summer came, me and the kids in the neighborhood, we went out and threw stuff all day. And it was that we played baseball in the summer till our mom screamed to come home, you know, for dinner. Fall came, we threw nothing but the football.

The winter, we cleared off snow from a place to play basketball because it was in season. We might sneak into the gym sometimes to play, but the bottom line is we played the sports given their time in the year. And now kids are blowing up in baseball because they pitched 11, 12 months a year. They're on travel teams all the time. They see a future. I've seen this a lot. You get a kid with a future in baseball. stops playing football because he could get hurt in football. So then you go back and look at the history.

Moore to Consider (24:17.044)
Even recently, did you know that Tom Brady was drafted in baseball? Did you know what he was drafted as? Catcher. He was drafted by the then Montreal Expos, now the Washington Nationals. Peyton Manning was drafted in baseball. Drew Brees was drafted in baseball. That used to be the given. Now here a couple of years ago, Murray with the Cardinals was drafted in baseball. So it still happens.

Laura Giles (24:21.162)
No idea.

Moore to Consider (24:46.295)
It's, still happens, but it was very commonplace in the eighties. I think one of the most talented players I ever saw that was with the Redskins was Jay Schrader. He was the third overall pick in baseball. Then he got into pro ball and he didn't hit. When he struggled hitting, they put him on the mound story that I heard was he was 95, 97, but he never pitched and he was afraid he's going to kill somebody. You know, so he calls his quarterback's coach at UCLA and says, can you get me an NFL? Redskins drafted him in the third round.

He's six four two 15 runs a four six 40 can throw the ball 80 plus. mean, it's like an amazing arm. You go back and look at the film of that eighties timeframe. Warren moon, Doug Williams, when Doug Williams was our quarterback too, I he could throw the ball at a stadium. Uh, but you're in the Elway time period, Marino Montana didn't have the greatest arm for distance, but he was the most precise quarterback. Maybe this ever played as far as in those moments, hitting spots when all the stuff is going on around him.

I don't think there was anybody any better, which leads to the big discussion that I wanted to next get into the one that should create some tension and hopefully some fights or whatever. The question of who are the greatest players of all time and even by position, knowing what you know, Laura, who do you think is the greatest football player of all time period?

Laura Giles (26:12.398)
You're asking me.

Moore to Consider (26:15.039)
I'm asking you, because I want to know like, you know, with with probably your lack of interest in it, like, you know, you grew up in America. Who do you think?

Laura Giles (26:23.554)
So I'm not totally ignorant about football. We played football outside, know, like you were talking about. We all went outside and played football. I was actually a football stat in high school. And I'm from Ohio State. If you're from Ohio State, you bleed scarlet and gray. So I know a little bit about football, but kind of like what you were saying, I lost interest in the Super Bowl because it just wasn't, I couldn't really tell you what it was, but there was something about it that just wasn't.

Moore to Consider (26:27.296)
I didn't say you were. Right.

Moore to Consider (26:36.202)
There you go.

Laura Giles (26:52.79)
all that entertaining anymore. And it was around the years of the 49ers being in there, when Montana and Jerry Rice were switching off.

Moore to Consider (27:03.84)
in their heyday. Right. Yeah. And I'm also thinking from an age standpoint, when I was in the eighties, I'm in that age range. Some of the guys that are superstars are just slightly older than I am. So, you know, you've got the looking up to when you're in college and you're seeing guys in the NFL, when you're college age, you're like, they're men, they're in there playing in the league. Then you reach a certain point, you kind of look back and you think they're children.

They all look so young, you know, I mean, it's kind of a thing about where you are at the time portal kind of thing. And, um, but my eyes definitely tell me certain things. Now I've also been at live games and seeing some things that like, wow, I'll never forget seeing that. So I mentioned to you guys last night, I ran into some guys in the service, you know, I was with a buddy of mine, you know, we're sitting and watching the game, uh, at a restaurant and I meet a couple of guys in the service. One's army, one's Navy, great guys.

You know, one's from Miami, one's from Louisiana. And, you know, we're talking sports. These guys were awesome. They knew a lot about sports and I'm, you know, kind of getting into, you know, what did we see at different times? And do you think they're younger than me? And what do you think you saw at different levels? And I said, I got one for you guys. And they're like, what's that? He said, here are the three guys I saw together on the same field for the Redskins. It was Daryl Green, Deon Sanders and Champ Bailey.

And they went, that's right. And I go, yeah. Dion came in for one year, stole money from Daniel Snyder kind of, you know, mean, he's played the one season, got millions of dollars. Daryl Green's at almost year 20. He had a 20 year career as a defensive back. And he ran a 40 at 50, I believe for like charity and ran a sub four, five. That's insane. Now he was a runner that one year in the NFL's fastest man, fastest man contest. beat Phillip El.

Epps, Ron Brown and Willie Gault. Now do you know what those three players shared in common? They ran the Olympics. He beat the three guys that had run in the Olympics. So he runs 60 yards on really cut fine, like, like a putting green grass and he runs in three heats. think it was six one two, six nine and six seven. He beats in one of the rounds. One year he beats Herschel Walker.

Laura Giles (29:04.566)
No. wow.

Wow.

Moore to Consider (29:29.109)
Big as Walker's he runs like a 6 to 60 which I'm telling you from baseball. That's the measurement That's elite crazy fast if your sub 6 1 in the 60 yard dash Okay, so that's Darryl Green. So Darryl Green's playing 40 ish Champ Bailey is a rookie or second year I guess he's second year at that time and Dion comes in for the one year So what you see at a game that you cannot see on TV?

is be close enough to see it. And what I noticed is they're out running around and you can see guys that run like deer. That's always what we say in baseball. They hop around and they just look like they're moving without effort. And I saw that clearly in Deon. I knew it in Daryl Green. The thing that was crazy is Champ Bailey, who's in the Hall of Fame that was traded for Clinton Portis and went out to the Broncos and became a Hall of Famer. He's twice as big.

Like he was a 6'1", 200 plus corner. So Deion was in that 6'1 range, kind of lean. Daryl Green was 5'8". God bless him, I love him because he's a Hall of Famer. Well, they're all Hall of Famers, all three of them. But they're out there moving around. But what struck you is, man, Champ Bailey's that fast. I want to say his combine time, I'd have to look it up, but I think he was in the 4'3 range. He ran a 40 in like the 4'3 range.

He was a university of Georgia. His brother played linebacker in the NFL. So he's a big guy. Now I talked about Sean Taylor to the guys last night too. You get a relative size thing you see at the professional level. And what I remember about Washington huddles when, when, when Sean Taylor, played four to seven when he pat, when he was killed in his own home, he was shot in his own home and passed away. I would see them. It's kind of like there's a defensive.

lineman structure. They're very large, thick people. They're just muscular, big people. Six, five, six, four, six, six. Then you see linebackers. They're all kind of six, two, six, four in the two 40 to two 50 range. Then the DBs five, eight, five, nine, maybe six foot. They might weigh one 85 to 200. And then there was Sean Taylor. And when Sean Taylor was huddling with the rest of the defense, he was as big as any linebacker. It looked like he looked that big.

Moore to Consider (31:52.294)
And he was fast. As you go back and watch the film, he would have been a Hall of Famers, one of the saddest stories in football history because everybody kind of knows he probably was going to be the best, but he dies at 24. So we'll never really know. He comes into conversations, but it's tragic. You know, it's tragic. One that a young man lost his life. And that's really all that matters. It's tragic. But as a fan, it's heartbreaking because everybody loved him and he was, he was really starting to solidify as a young man.

He had a fiance with the child and I think the little girl now is a great athlete herself. And she wears his number, she wears 21. His number was retired by the organization, which I think is a class move. The way they did it wasn't the classiest, but it's been done. And I ask you greatest player, what's your stab at it again?

Laura Giles (32:45.966)
I'm gonna go with Joe Montana.

Moore to Consider (32:48.625)
All right. I like Joe Montana actually. So here is one man's view. I'm just pulling this from the internet. You can find a million different sources on this, but one man's view is greatest players by position quarterback, Tom Brady, number two, Otto Graham, which a lot of people don't even really know about Otto Graham was with the Cleveland Browns when they played in, I believe it was the all American football conference.

Laura Giles (32:51.756)
I do to.

Moore to Consider (33:17.904)
that also had the 49ers in the Colts. And then they all came into the NFL. And as soon as they walked in the NFL, they won the championship with the Cleveland Brown team founded by Paul Brown, the famous coach. Audubrand played 10 seasons. He played in the championship game 10 times. All 10 years he played, he played in the championship game. Now the honorable mentions are Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Drew Brees. They're all great names.

What I like to do in these bar room discussions is I'd say to people, if you could take the guy 25 to 28, 29, whatever the age range of his prime, who would you start if your life depended on it? Me personally, as much as I love Tom Brady and I love Tom Brady, I think he's wonderful. I take Joe Montana and I get people, you're crazy, man. It was like four Super Bowls versus 10 and one seven. But I'm like, yeah, but if I'm on the field that day and I got to start a guy that I think is going to win. And I think that.

Brady wouldn't be upset with that, to be honest with you. just, they could be neck and neck, but I'm just simply going with the eyeball test. I never saw anybody I thought that was a better, greater quarterback, especially under pressure. Now going way back, you got Otto Graham. You also have John Unitas. He was a guy that completely changed the game. He was the Elvis Presley of the era. There was Elvis and it was Marilyn Monroe.

Of course she passes in 62, but in that timeframe, Johnny Unitas is becoming a household name in a sport that's overtaking football. It was Mickey Mantle. It was Willie Mays. You know, that's who everybody knew in professional baseball. Then boom, all of a sudden the NFL starts to bypass it. And probably the biggest name in the early sixties was Unitas. And he was a great, great quarterback. And he's also that story that often happens in sports. He grows up in Pittsburgh.

Which is another crazy thing. What do you think? Joe Montana, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and I'm missing one more. Well, of the four of those guys, and I know there's another famous one. Joe Namath. Namath, Marino, Unitas, Kelly, Montana. What are they all sharing?

Laura Giles (35:39.544)
Pittsburgh.

Moore to Consider (35:41.34)
They grew up with him like 50 miles of each other. And I asked a friend of mine that was a professional baseball scout went to him. like, what's it about you in Pittsburgh? He goes, tough people. And that's true. I've never met a person I didn't love from Pittsburgh that wasn't just great people. And so he goes, yeah, it's in the water there. Mike Ditka was from there. Chuck Benarik was from there. It's been a lot of great professional football players come from Pittsburgh and they're tough guys. So it's amazing though that five guys like that came out from within.

40 to 50 miles of each other that had those type of careers from one part of the world.

Offensive guard. I'm not expecting that to probably roll right off your tongue, but I like who they picked here. You got an offensive guard in mind. They got Larry Allen here and they got Larry Allen one and number two, John Hannah. That's tough to really argue with. The honorable mentions were Randall McDaniel, Bruce Matthews who played like 20 years as well. And Jean Upshaw and Jean Upshaw. And we were talking about this last night among our friends. like, I'm liking Jean Upshaw.

Laura Giles (36:25.717)
I don't.

Moore to Consider (36:48.197)
He used to be the director of the players association, but he was a hall of fame player with the Raiders. Now offensive tackle again, it's probably not one. It's not the sexiest position to most, but, I do believe this is the best. And we had that discussion too is Anthony Munoz. So Anthony Munoz plays at Southern Cal and you know why he's a Southern California kid. Do you know why in large part, he went to Southern Cal?

Laura Giles (37:17.098)
No, no idea.

Moore to Consider (37:18.032)
Cause they let him play baseball. He's six six 300 plus. And he was like a cat. mean, just great movements, great body for a big guy. I he just was a great athlete. And the story I've heard is he kind of went around like, who's going to let me play baseball too. He did play baseball at Southern cow. So that's why, he went there as opposed to some schools that might like, now you need to be playing spring football. Now I want to play baseball. So he went there. Runner up Jackie Slater.

I think that's definitely the conversation you played 20 years with the Los Angeles Rams. So it's a record for offensive lineman. do believe that, like I said, I think Bruce Matthews also may have played 20. Honorable mentions, Ron Yerry, Forrest Greg famously played for the Green Bay Packers and Jonathan Ogden. I think Jonathan Ogden is one of the greatest of all time too. You want to try to guess the specs on him size? 6'9", 340.

Laura Giles (38:12.078)
No idea. Wow.

Moore to Consider (38:17.176)
And he moved also like a cat, but a much larger cat. But yeah, he was a UCLA guy. Senator Mike Webster, he became very famous with the movie about head trauma and whether or not, you know, what, how that led to his death. Mike Webster was only 50 years of age when he was discovered. He had passed away. And this famously that was in the movie regarding head trauma and the effects that

This has had on NFL players, especially in the, you know, towards the end of their lives. he only lived to be 50. He played 17 seasons. And, I remember him quite well. he played with the Steelers. He won many of the super bowls that the Steelers played in. He was a five time first team all pro. And honestly, if you watch the film, he led with his head a lot. He wore a Rawlings helmet. There's a lot of photographs when he took the helmet off.

the padding of the Rollins helmet had lines running, you know, kind of vertically, it would be pressed right into his forehead. He had issues too with growth of a lot of like scar tissue in his forehead. He was a lead with the head guy. So the head trauma, maybe that's it, which I have another whole theory on that. Well, I'll just go ahead and address that. If you look up top, I don't want to have to get up there and get it, but I have suspension helmets.

And suspension helmets were worn through around the 1975 season. And then NFL players pretty much, this is an outlawed helmet now, but this is a VSR four that was made by Riddell. This was a helmet that famously, you know, Tom Brady wanted to continue to wear. Everybody in the league was pretty much wearing it 20 years ago, maybe in that timeframe. Then they made the big push.

to go to different helmets that they're wearing now that are supposed to have better testing technology as it relates to concussions. Some of these guys that are living long lives, mean, Sonny Jurgensen, my hero, he wore a suspension helmet, was a quarterback, of course, not a guy that was really banging heads. He's 90. He made it to 90. Many guys have died younger, but you know, there's some players that have made it to pretty old ages. Sammy Ball, famous,

Moore to Consider (40:39.576)
Hall of Fame quarterback for the Redskins lived in 94. So there have been some men, you know, that have had really long lives and that played in the era where you have a web suspension. You basically have a canvas webbing with a little rubber piece at the top. Then you have what I just showed you, which is like a bowling ball with padding in it. So I played high school football and that's kind of in the timeframe. Some of that was transitioning. And I remember I'm the first round pick. mean, I just barely played high school ball.

But what you notice with the helmets back then is you felt invincible. You didn't really feel anything. The concussions are coming from your brain literally bouncing around with inside of your skull. So if you're getting brain movement into spaces within your skull, you got problems. Well, if you're wearing a helmet, you're like, Hey, I just banged up against that guy or led with my head and I didn't feel a thing. You play like that. I have seen the studies that in rugby.

Laura Giles (41:20.664)
Right.

Moore to Consider (41:35.467)
And then there's a professional flag football league now that's full contact. can block, you can make full contact. They don't have concussions. And I think subconsciously the players that played in the era where they had the webbing type of suspension helmet, you didn't think in terms of hitting people by leading with your head. So you played like you didn't have a helmet on. So you're going to do more shoulder. You're going to roll people more with your body or mid part of your body or your shoulder tackle. You're not going to hit people with your head.

Because it hurts. If you have that kind of webbing on and you hit somebody, your bell is rung. So naturally, human nature, instinct. I think maybe the game was taught better at that time, but clearly, if you know I hit this guy, my head's going to be ringing for some time versus this invincibility feeling that I have with that helmet, I'm not going to hit the same way. And the fact that in leagues like rugby, I had a friend of mine who played rugby in college, playing, nobody ever got a concussion.

Laura Giles (42:28.046)
true.

Moore to Consider (42:34.19)
We'll watch rugby players. They don't use their heads. So I don't know what, with the new helmet technology, they're trying to let guys play kind of had how they have been playing and have a safer helmet. They are trying to outlaw all the head leading hits. I mean, they do what they can about that. But I really do believe that a person playing football will do whatever they think they can do to maintain safety.

And if you're in a helmet that you feel safe in and make head leading type of contact, you'll do it. When it doesn't feel good, you won't. think that's a lot of it. Now the runner up at center was Dwight Stevenson. He had one of the worst knee injuries in the history of football that ended his career. If I'm not mistaken, he went to Hampton high school in Virginia and was born in Murfreesboro, North Carolina. I'm pretty sure about that, but I remember Stevenson. was the center for the dolphins and he was widely seen at.

time is the greatest center in his era. Although we play at the same time as Mike Webster. He's a five time pro bowler. He went to Alabama and I do believe like he might've played eight years and when his knee was injured, there was no coming back from it. Honorable mentions that the position Mel Hind played back in the thirties, Jim Otto, who was the original Raiders center that had great career.

Dermont, a Dawson play with the chiefs and Orlando pace. don't remember Orlando pace necessarily playing center that much. thought he was more of a tackle, but tight end Tony Gonzalez. Tony Gonzalez is still doing commentary on TV. It's interesting. The guys that we were talking to last night, they made the point. He was a true tight end. Some of these guys now we're just kind of like a split end.

They're, they're, you know, they're out away from the tackle. They're, more gazelle types that are running patterns. They're not the guy that could block in catch. like Tony Gonzalez a lot. The other runner up was Antonio Gates. Now Gates is interesting because he was a division one basketball player who kind of bounced into the NFL as an unknown and becomes a hall of Famer. He was a great, great player, lots of yards catching, with the basketball skills. He was a phenomenal athlete.

Moore to Consider (44:48.461)
Kellan Winslow's mentioned, Jason Witten, Shannon Sharp. Shannon Sharp was a phenomenal Hall of Fame player. Wide receiver, say it.

Laura Giles (44:57.815)
I don't know.

Moore to Consider (44:57.837)
Everybody says it's Jerry Rice and Jerry Rice is often listed as the greatest player of all time. All positions combined. Kind of hard to argue 20 seasons in the league, 1500 receptions. mean, guys that had led before were in the 800 range. Now he comes in and doubles it before his career is out. 22,895 all purpose yards leads NFL history. We're going to get into number two in a minute because

Laura Giles (45:06.412)
I can see that. Yeah.

Moore to Consider (45:25.364)
It's a former Washington Redskins that I think needs to be in the Hall of Fame badly. Now the runner up on the wide receiver thing, another thing in ballroom discussions, I think the most gifted athlete maybe that ever played in the league ever is the number two mentioned here. It's Randy Moss. I never saw anything like Randy Moss. I mean, four three runner, six foot four, great hands.

He definitely played a more motivated game when he came to the Patriots, pretty good ways into his career. And he had a great time with Tom Brady and they win 16 regular season games and famously lose to the Giants in the Superbowl. But that season he sets the record for the most receptions in a season when he's playing with Tom Brady. So it's interesting. You bring in Randy Moss, you put him with Tom Brady and it's electric. But I think my eyes tell me as far as the position.

Or I'm sorry, forget the position. Just talking about an athlete on a football field. I don't think there was anything like Randy Moss because he was ungodly fast and long. So he's a big tall guy that could make outstanding catches and at the same time outrun everyone. But Jerry Rice, you always have to bow to Jerry Rice is the best because 20 years in the league and playing like he did. He's an incredible man. Now, honorable mentions.

Terrell Owens, who I'm glad finally got his due. Terrell Owens went through a lot of heat about what kind of teammate he was. Was he a distraction? But the guy put up numbers that were insane. So I think he has to be mentioned among this gets into any discussion about hall of famers. You get into the discussion of, okay, the guy got a couple of speeding tickets as you know, is he off the hall of fame or, you he had a DUI. If he had a DUI and kill four people, but still.

You know, it's provocative that is to say, does it really matter in a hall of fame context? If somebody had something off the field, of course, famously, and it didn't happen in sequence. Cause when we get to running back, one guy that I think is totally discounted, but go back and watch the film is OJ Simpson. So you as Josephine Q. Citizen again, where are you with OJ?

Laura Giles (47:38.904)
True.

Laura Giles (47:42.936)
What do mean?

Moore to Consider (47:44.543)
Like where do you think he stands in American like pop culture, history and all the rest?

Laura Giles (47:49.366)
I think the killing of his ex-wife has erased his football history, which is a shame because he was really good at that.

Moore to Consider (47:58.476)
And so you think he did it? Yeah. And I think a lot of people do. And I think people are willing to admit that for a long time, you know, that there's all kinds, you know, you can do a whole show on all the theories. Um, and you know, I mentioned in the show on the JFK assassination, the one thing that I never bought and we were discussing, I did a JFK show where I was on with a author and writer that, a college professor.

Laura Giles (48:00.263)
yeah.

Moore to Consider (48:25.803)
That's saying that Lee Harvey Oswald on the day of the assassination goes to work. He has no idea he's going to be on the run arrested or anything else. And my response to him was, you're telling me Oswald's in the school book depository. He's the Patsy. He's the one set up for the assassination. He doesn't know it. No, no, he didn't know anything. You know, as you remember, I was kind of like, okay, then how did they know whoever these four guys were in a smoke filled room?

How did they know that Oswald wasn't going to be down on Elm Street screaming, Hey Jack, Jackie, it's Lee. I'm here to see you. And everybody that works at, Hey, Lee's out here watching. Now you're going to pin it on that guy taking the chance since he doesn't know. So same thing with the OJ Simpson murder. It was, and they had the fuel, guess, on Mark Furman to paint him what, and they're coming out of, everybody knows the history. I would think, you know, they're coming out of the Rodney King beating the LAPD.

race relations and sort of how the whole history of the department looks isn't the best. And the strategy of Johnny Cochran and pretty much the dream team was paint them all as racist and let's get OJ off on the fact that people are going to think it's questionable what the LAPD would have done. The part I never bought though is I saw Furman on an interview 10, 15 years after the murders and after the acquittal. And he goes, here's the guy's honest truth. When we got there, we had a woman.

almost decapitated. There's so much blood and so much of a mess. We don't even know who the hell it is. So we're there. We don't know it's Nicole Brown Simpson. We don't know the connection to OJ. Then we discover Ron Goldman's body to the side. We go in, there's two children sleeping. They're looking through stuff and they discover this is Nicole Brown Simpson. But, you know, as I mentioned before, would you then turn to your colleagues, other officers, and Hey, I got just the idea.

We all hate OJ, right? Everybody agree. We hate OJ. Yeah. Mark, where's this going? Let's pin it on him. First thing I would think is somebody raised their hand. Like, how do you know he's not in Des Moines, Iowa right now in front of the Rotary club speaking in front of 1500 people. So if you don't know where he is, so I never believed anything about the planning of evidence. I never believed any of that. Do I think as an attorney who's done both prosecution and defense work, do I think some of these things are fair game?

Moore to Consider (50:43.131)
Absolutely. I think if something's out there that you can get in the jury's mind that potentially that client was not treated properly, it's fair game. If you want to have a law enforcement department that doesn't get this thrown, I think it was unfair on the LAPD to some degree, probably, but if they weren't running with a really good history, it's open. It's an open question. And I think there's a lot of people out there that do question police and its conduct and things like that.

And if you're going to have those kinds of, well, and also the ramparts division thing happened, you may have remembered, remember the TV show, the shield. Okay. You don't. Okay. I think a lot of listeners will, it had Michael chicklists, the guy from Massachusetts that used to do the commissioner show. He trimmed down, got all buffed up, got real tough looking and he played a guy. And this is kind of what I've always thought about the whole drug war. There you go. Get into another subject.

The whole drug war was based around that we're out there for the distributor, trying to maybe arrest the user, find times when people meet together to make exchanges with drugs, blah, blah, blah. So if you're a police officer and you're making X and some dealer comes up and says, you can make X, Y, Z and some, just look the other way or become a part of it. This TV show was based on what in part happened in LA. And if you ever saw Scarface,

I used to show this to one of my criminal justice classes. There's the time in the movie where he's meeting with the commissioner. later, or not the commissioner, one of detect lead detectives and the lead detective says, Hey, he writes on a napkin. If you want my protection, there's a number. And Al Pacino as a Montana, there was it right there are villain. He was like, it's pretty big number. He goes, it's pretty big job. And here's what I need.

what I'm going to do for you is every time a new guy hits the street, I'm you tell me and I'll get him off the street, which benefits you and gives us a drug bust. So you pay me this number for protection. Was Al Capone doing the same thing? Absolutely. You if you saw the movie Untouchables loosely based on the Elliott Ness story, everybody knew where the booze was. I mean, that was the line from Sean Connery. We all know where the booze is. Does anybody have the guts to go in there and knock it out? So if you have a black market,

Moore to Consider (53:07.396)
If you have a regulated substance or you make a substance illegal, which there's a market for, you're going to have corruption. So that all was kind of happening in the same timeframe. There was the timeframe issue of what's happened with the Rodney King beating and the LAPD being dirty in the first place. One other thing to say about that, that I always found fascinating when I first went into teaching criminal justice and I was at the college where I was teaching.

Somebody had left me a box of all these films. They're old VHS films on training and things. And there was a story that came out probably in the nineties of one of the biggest takedowns of a New York city police officer. And he's in the orange jumpsuit. He's lost his wife. He's lost everything. His wife, children. He's in lockup for 30 years or something. I think it was Leslie Stahl goes in. I think it's CBS, you know. And she goes in and says, what happened?

And he's like, yeah, probably in the mid eighties there, I'm making like 45 grand a year as a cop guy walks up to me one day. He's like, you want to make 50,000 right now? Do what? Look the other way. Do this next thing. You know, he gets highly involved with the drug guys. One day they find him on coke in his patrol car. He's been driving a Porsche on the side, like, and nobody's making it. He's making 390,000 a year in the eighties as a stooge, basically for the drug guy.

And she said, did anybody see this? Yeah, they all saw it. And they're like, why don't they say anything? It's like, because then they look bad. like my superior officers kind of know something doesn't look right. But if they go after it, now everybody's got to explain why you've got drug dealers working within the police department. So they just kind of look away. I'm going to ask you this too. It was an interesting thing. They said, did you know all the guys who were on the take?

And goes, yeah, I can identify him every time. goes, why, what do you think he said was the number one thing that he knew? It's such an unfair question. But of all the odd things, he goes, if I saw, I'll give you a hint. If I saw a guy's car, I knew he was on the take or I knew he was dirty. What do you think it was?

Moore to Consider (55:27.303)
Clean car. He said your average M1A1 slob cop had, you know, wrappers from hamburgers and milkshakes thrown all over it. But if a guy had a spit and polish car, he's overcompensating for the fact he's dirty. goes, he goes, my proficiency reports on the five scale or five clean car, clean mats. He goes, I was so out of my mind to not draw attention to myself. I drew attention to myself.

Laura Giles (55:44.311)
that makes sense.

Moore to Consider (55:57.265)
He goes, if I got in a car and the guy was a slob, knew he was, yeah, he's not doing anything. But that was so funny. He goes, as soon as I saw a clean car, a guy that went really overboard with stuff, I'm like, that guy's on the take or he he's doing something dirty because he's trying to cover up for it. So that was a whole big thing about OJ. And you think the whole OJ. The history, I he's just passed in the last year, so you think that's just a tarnished history, never recoverable.

Laura Giles (56:25.422)
I mean, he was a great player. So it's too bad that he doesn't get that credit.

Moore to Consider (56:28.218)
Yeah, but-

Well, how great once again, I'm telling you, you go back and watch it. But I remember he had the first 2000 yard season in 1990, 1973, 1963. Jim Brown got 1863. He got 1,863 yards in 1963. And 10 years later, OJ got 2003 in 1973 and broke that. And I, I I remember it. I was a kid, but I remember it's like,

with 2000 yards in a 14 game tooth. It was just the most unbelievable thing ever to get that many yards in a season. That's how great he was. He didn't play on particularly great teams. And it is a casualty position. You're not going to last, you know, top in five, six years. You're getting banged around. You're going to get knee injuries. You're going to get twisted around. You're going to get all types of injuries. So longevity. Jim Brown played nine years. He led the league in rushing in eight years.

and then was doing the Dirty Dozen in Europe. He's doing the film, The Dirty Dozen, and he's late getting back and the owner, Art Modell, is like finding him, I don't know, whatever it was, 1966, X number, and he goes, okay, screw it, I'm an actor. And then come back. And I loved, I met Jim Brown at an autograph show. That's one of the biggest thrills of my life. Cause like, if you look up, if, to me, if you look up man in the dictionary, there's Jim Brown's picture.

So I go up and I'm like, sir, could I get a picture with you? And he's like, yeah, yeah, hop in son, you know, and I'm like, yeah, it's Jim Brown. Yeah, it was with Jim Brown. He was really a gracious and nice guy, but it's Jim Brown. know, you're like big guy, huge hands. And then when I got up to leave, it was 2008, I noticed that he had a walking stick to get up. He had to use a cane basically to walk. He just passed away at 87. So when I saw him,

Moore to Consider (58:24.567)
I don't know. He was early seventies, I guess, but very imposing figure. If you saw Jim Brown live and I have the picture this day and it means a lot to me because I saw Jim Brown in person and he was very nice fan and that meant a lot to me. right. Now running backs, they give it to Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders had the great career where he ran for a lot of yards. He was way ahead of the on time to be the all time leading rusher and quit. He walked away after 10 seasons.

And people were kind of like, I'm sorry, why'd you quit? And I don't know that he's ever really given a lot of explanation other than the Lions really struggled as an organization to win. And I think he just felt like this is not going anywhere positive. And he didn't really ever seem to be, he clearly wasn't the arrogant guy or really that caring of his records. So 10 seasons, he's a 10 time pro bowler, five time first team all pro, meaning first team over everybody else at the position.

He had 15,269 yards and 99 touchdowns. He played against Washington in the NFC championship game in 91 and Washington blew him out. Other than that, I don't think he ever got a real good run in the playoffs. They went to the playoffs a few times, but that's as far as it went. Runner up, according to this person that put this together, Jim Brown was a dominant force. He played nine seasons, 12,312 yards.

and 106 touchdowns. He was eight time pro bowler and five time first team all pro. He was also named to the NFL's 1950s all decade team. He was a bruising runner with incredible strength and power, which brings up part of where I wanted to go with this today too. You know, as a college baseball coach, I'm in the van 10 years ago and I do the whole thing about guys. I think the players were better in the eighties than ever. And they're like, coach, those guys couldn't play today. And that's when I famously said,

You don't think Lawrence Taylor could play today, which we're going to get to. But I was talking to another group of young people a few days ago that I'm coaching. And I said the same thing. You what are you trying to tell me that Jim Brown could play? I'm like, have you ever seen Jim Brown now that he's Pat? But have you ever seen him in person? No. I said, well, I did. How big do you think? And this was interesting. I think how big a guy do you think Jim Brown was? And you're like, I don't know, 5'11, 5'10. But you know, he was 6'2 and he was well over 200 pounds. He was 6'2. And I go, yeah.

Moore to Consider (01:00:50.904)
Now he's playing in an era that I don't think the guys tackling him were as good as they were 20 years later, but he was still Jim Brown. Now it might be Jim Brown was playing in an era where Jim Brown was just so much better as I kind of believe Lawrence Taylor was. think Lawrence Taylor would still be the best player in football today, but God knows in the eighties, he just destroyed people. And it was such a visual thing. I remember the first time I didn't really know that much about him when he went to Carolina. He's from Williamsburg, Virginia.

You know, pretty much where I live. went to Lafayette high school, but I remember the first time I saw him on TV. went, my God. Like, what is that? Like, Holy cow. He just took that offensive lineman and threw him in the backfield. He's sacking quarterbacks by taking the running back and throwing them into the player. And I'm like, what is that all about? So it was really that shocking. It was at the time shocking to see him kicker, Adam Vinatieri. honorable mentions on the running backs, Bo Jackson, Walter Payton, who at one point was the all time leading rusher.

Laura Giles (01:01:37.198)
you

Moore to Consider (01:01:50.346)
And Eric Dickerson, who also came in the league and went right over 2000 very early in his career. And it was pretty amazing running back from SMU kicker, Adam Vinatieri. Okay. Kickers being what they are. Morton Anderson's runner up punter. they gave to Sean Leckler and they mentioned Ray guy. Now Ray guy was the first punter ever drafted in the first round. Ray guy was insane punter. I mean, he punted balls. think.

early on when they played in New Orleans and the dome hit, he hit the ceiling or something. I mean, it was something crazy that he did that no one had done to that point. he's a six time all pro. He's the only punter inducted in the hall of fame and he was a backup quarterback. He was a great, great athlete and he's now passed. And I think that's hard to believe that he died in his early seventies, I believe. Kick return specialist, Devin Hester just made the hall of fame. Great player.

No question runner up drum roll. Brian Mitchell. I love Brian Mitchell. Every Redskins fan loves Brian Mitchell. You have to love Brian Mitchell. It's just, it's essential because he was one of the greatest players ever for our franchise. He's special. He does post game stuff for the Redskins now or for the, oops, commanders. He also does radio in DC. He's just a love figure and he's from Louisiana, which when I met my buddy last night in the military, I'm like,

I got one Brian Michigan's Brian. I said, yeah, Brian Mitchell's from Louisiana. So we looked it up. And of course I was right. And I told him what town he goes. I know exactly where that is. Anyway, don't tell me you've never heard of Brian Mitchell. This guy says he played 14 seasons and had 23,330 return yards and 13 touchdowns. I think that sounds a little high because I think he's second in all purpose yards with 19,000 and change. He's a four time pro bowler, two time first team all pro.

He's the NFL's all time leader in kick return yards and combined return yards, meaning punting and kicks. was named to the 1990s all decade team. Mitchell was an excellent returner and had great vision and elusiveness and he belongs in the hall of fame period. So there I've said it. want some people get some takes on that special team or Steve Tasker. No doubt. Bill Bates, Cowboys now get into defense defensive end. Red, you white.

Moore to Consider (01:04:16.483)
I don't think there's any question about that. Reggie was six five, three five ish, maybe a little bit more and was an ordained minister. And as he beat the living hell out of people, he prayed for him. Like he'd sack the quarterback. I'm not kidding. You pray for people and yeah. And so he spread the message of our Lord and savior as he destroyed you. So sweet guy. And of course he dies too young too. He dies asleep apnea complications at the age of 43. The runner up, Bruce Smith, Norfolk, Virginia.

I went to Booker T high school in Norfolk and went to Virginia Tech and ended this career with the most sacks in NFL history. Honorable mention, Chris Dolman, Kevin Green, Julius Peppers. I got to take Reggie White. I never saw a player that I thought was in his lane ever. And he is in the conversation with LT is the greatest defensive player. think defensive tackle, Randy White, crazy strong man, Pittsburgh guy again.

Went to university of Maryland, not huge guy. mean, and size wise to other guys in the NFL to play defensive tackle, but was in crazy strong. And yeah, I like him. Now I would have said Joe green, but they're putting him in a different position. The runner up for defensive tackles, John Randall and the honorable mentions Warren Sapp. Warren Sapp was a great player. They're saying here, this guy is according to this nose tackle mean Joe green.

Another guy talked to young people. Yeah. I don't know if he could play today. How big was Joe green? And they're like, what are they like? Six one 200. No, it six four, two 75. He was six. Yeah. Joe green was not a small man and he's playing in an era where they're much leaner at the two 75. But Joe green threw people all over the place too. He just destroyed people with his hands. He was just a very, very strong player. 13 seasons, 10 pro bowls, nine time first team all pro for super bowls.

The runner up for the nose guard, they're calling it was also just a defensive tackles. Bob Lilly, according to this, Bob Lilly was great. Dallas Cowboys. He was the original cowboy. He was one of the first Dallas Cowboys when they started the team at 60. I think he came in in 1961, 11 time pro bowl or six time first team all pro middle linebacker Ray Lewis. Now there's another guy. How much do you know about Ray Lewis and how much of a stain do you think he had with his?

Moore to Consider (01:06:44.181)
trial related to the stabbing deaths in Atlanta or you look as though you're not really aware of that. Yeah, Ray Lewis was a linebacker, of course, the whole time for the Ravens. And one of the years he was playing, I think early on there was a Super Bowl. I want to say it was in Atlanta and he went with a group of people. There was some type of altercation with his group and another group. I don't even really know all the facts on that, but he was exonerated.

Laura Giles (01:06:49.504)
No, I don't know that story.

Moore to Consider (01:07:11.669)
I think he got convicted of being less than truthful to a cop or something. He might've gotten a misdemeanor charge or something. He went through a period where he definitely became a very inspirational guy to a lot of young people. I want to like Ray Lewis a lot. think there's a lot of personality I think is really, really good for the game and for how he.

Basically what he projected. mean, he was a great player. mean, there's no doubt, not the biggest guy, 6'1". I think he might've been in the 240 range, but very relentless with the body, ran into everything moving, could tackle like no one's business. He's one of the greatest players. 13 time pro bowler, 10 time first team all pro. There is a little bit of the stain though of whatever happened in his first years with this and know, people can make comments about that as well.

runner up, Dick Butkus just passed away. He's another one of those guys. I'm like, Dick Butkus can't die. You know, it's Dick Butkus. Uh, what's interesting about him is all the persona he carried as the nastiest guy in football. Then he becomes a comedian. He does a series of the beer commercials with Bubba Smith, who's also a sweetheart. Bubba Smith's like six eight and they're doing light beer commercials where they're tearing out, uh, tables and things, chairs from bars.

knocking people over kind of thing in a nice way. but yeah, and he was in some movies, comedies and things like that. And he became this kind of iconic figure of comedy and a goodwill ambassador for pro football. But in his day, when he played, was mean as hell. He was great player. He was also a linebacker. I'll ask you this, cause he's playing starts in 1965 as a rookie. What size do you think Dick Buccus played at?

Laura Giles (01:08:59.822)
No idea.

Moore to Consider (01:09:01.575)
6'3, 250. So he's in the 60s era. These guys, like I said, they're not like six feet and 200 or something. He was 6'3, 250 and was a great player. Brian Erlacher, also of the Bears, is mentioned. Jack Hamm, Mike Singletary. Now we go to the greatest discussion of all, the outside linebacker. And I think is a reasonable argument to be made to greatest football player of all time in the NFL. I'm partial that anybody knows me. No, I'm a broken record about that.

And I'm a skins fan. was, I mean, I was Washington fan and he destroyed us, but I think Lawrence Taylor may be the greatest football player ever. It's the rice discussion. It's the Jim Brown. I looked at another list and they had just that list rice Brown Taylor. Taylor is the highest ranked defensive player. I think that's true. Many people that are listening to this podcast will remember this few years ago, Khalil Mack. And I looked at the top 100 players today and

I think a lot of them aren't household names. I don't think they have the impact in the culture that I think players did back then. Maybe I'm wrong. It's a timing thing with me, but a few years ago, it's funny. Bill Belichick, who, you know, had some, assistant coaching positions like out of college, but then he goes to the giants and he's with Bill Parcells. Bill Parcells is the defensive coordinator and then gets the head coaching job and Belichick is running these great defenses.

So now that he's a head coach with the new England Patriots here, just about four or five years ago, Khalil Mack is all the rage as a outside linebacker, rushing linebacker. And a guy in the press was like, do you think Khalil Mack is like knocking on that legendary like Lawrence Taylor door and Belichick space? goes, no, no, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Don't ever do that. Don't have, let's talk about players today. Okay.

He was like, let's talk about players. Don't you ever bring LT into these conversations. And he was serious. He was like, there's LT. I'll talk about other players, but no, no, don't do that. Don't ever compare players to Lawrence Taylor. And right after that, Taylor on some social media had the praying in hands and he goes, what he said, was like, what, Belichick said. And you could see the emotion that he was like, no, really don't ever talk about Lawrence Taylor in a breath with someone else.

Moore to Consider (01:11:27.764)
And I think given the fact he coached him and he was there every day with them and the stories that you hear, there was nothing like Lawrence Taylor. I still think that's true. And I, that was discussed by some NFL types from that time on a talk show I was watching. And all the players were like, I kind of have to give it to Belichick. He's right on this one. We played against Taylor. Now you don't talk about anybody else. So there you go. I think he might be the greatest player of all time.

Says he had off the field issues. all kind of know that, but on the field, he was incredible. That's no doubt. No doubt. And NFL teams really had us, Joe Gibbs, the Redskins teams at the time. That single back offense that Washington became famous for the two tight end offense, the one back that started off, was John Regan's Joe Washington were on passing downs, but that whole setup came from, we got to put an extra person on Lawrence Taylor on the wing, on the edge.

And, you know, I saw famously once Gibbs was asked, you know, what, you know, kind of what'd you do? And goes, well, you know, if you put a running back out there to, to, to block him, you lose. He goes, then we tried to put a tight end on it and we didn't do much better. And then we kind of had to pull a guard around to be there to intercept him. But whatever you did, you lost. And I heard March Loretta who played for Washington, the 91 Superbowl said it got to the point.

that we literally ran right at him. And he goes, this is counterintuitive as that sounds. He goes, when you did things away from him, he was so fast and so destructive, he ran everything down from behind. So if we did student body right or left, wherever side, if we ran right at him, we had the best chance to put bodies on him and just overwhelm him with mass. Cause you didn't want him. And the guy was like, you ran out. He goes, yeah, running at him actually was only about the only thing we could do.

Because if we ran away from him, he chased it down from behind with his speed. So, but then the guy said, well, what was your take? He goes, I was scared to death of him. So Shalessa was like, I was scared to death. We all were like, we all came to the line and we looked around like, where is he? There's a famous story too about Ron Jaworski, who Taylor always laughs about that he beat up on the most. There's a famous story that he came to the line, looked around, looked around, and he looked at the official timeout.

Moore to Consider (01:13:49.361)
And he makes it to the sideline. The coach like, why'd you call time out? He goes, I couldn't find Taylor. He goes, well, he's on the bench. So Taylor had taken a play off and because Jaworski came to the line looking for Taylor and couldn't find him, he panicked and called timeout. Cause he couldn't, he couldn't start to play until he knew where he was. And I've heard the stories that Taylor would come to sidelines Belichick told us too. And he comes to the sideline. He goes, I know every play. He goes, what do mean? He goes to the tackle looks at me. They're passing. He's looking to see where I am.

If he doesn't pay any attention, they're running. And goes, okay. And he goes the rest of the game, they ran every defense based upon the tackle. There's always a guy tipping because people were staring at him. If they were staring, it's like, okay, I got to make this block to keep him out of the backfill off the quarterback. And if they start, you know, they're, they're kind of glaring at me, come to line. know what they're going to do. That's pretty much intimidation. Uh, runner up Derek Thomas tragically died young. He was a great pass rusher as well. Played with the chiefs.

mentions honorable mentions to Marcus where Junior say how tragically died and Khalil Mack. Cornerbacks Dion Sanders we've mentioned before prime time. The rail Revis is the number two the honorable mentions and the US Williams Mel Blunt Darryl green Darryl green we've talked about Mel Blunt was one also want to make the point in the seventies they went to a rule about the Chuck rule.

There was a certain amount of distance you could contact a receiver and then you had to let him go. It's at a five yard space. could do something. Art Monk was famously wide receiver who was a crime. It took him as long as it did to get in the hall of fame. I heard Gibbs, Joe Gibbs, the head coach say they put him in motion a lot. Monk was six, three, two, 10. But when he lined up across the DB, they had a way to kind of jam him a lot.

So they used him in motion a lot because they had him in motion as the play started and he got off into his route. He was less likely to get jammed. But the rule, the Mel Blunt rule was Mel Blunt so beat the hell out of players at the line of scrimmage, they never could get into the route. So the league was like, you know, passing us down and Mel Blunt's destroying people. He was a very physical corner. I think he could still play today. He's probably in his seventies, but he was really a physical specimen type guy. Very physical.

Moore to Consider (01:16:09.949)
could play the game with a lot of impact and he was an all pro all the time and won many of those super bowls with, if not all the Steelers, bowls, safety Ronnie lot. Can't argue with that. Another 49er, lot played both corner and safety. And he was 10 year pro bowler, eight year first team, all pro four times, second team, all pro. He was named to the NFL defensive player of the year in 1986.

He was inducted into hall of fame in 2000. On top of that, he won four super bowls with the 49ers. Lot was a great tackler with great size and strength. He was one of the hardest hitters in the game. He was that. He did hit people. Runner up, Reed. Like Sean Taylor, University of Miami product. The matter of fact, he was at Miami just before Sean Taylor. And I got to believe Ed Reed's one of the greatest players that ever played football as well. Played 12 seasons, 64 interceptions, a nine time pro bowler, seven time first team all pro.

impact player for the Ravens. No question. One of the greatest players of his era in all time. Now the honorable mentions are Ken Houston played for the Redskins. He started with the Oilers. He finished his career in Washington. Steve Atwater, another big time hitter with Denver and Troy Palamalu, who I had a friend is the Steelers fan that says he's the greatest player that ever played. So final word that this guy put up, it's hard to determine the greatest players. And again, that's what leads to some nice ballroom discussions.

because if you, if you fight these battles, like I was telling the guys with last night, the Montana versus Brady, and that just gets you thrown out of the room. If you, if you don't say Brady, and I love Brady, I do, I love Brady. I just had that thing that Montana is the best I ever saw. And I think Marino with the different cast of characters would have had more impact. And I definitely think John Elway got.

the first three Superbowls he lost with players not that good that far. And then he bore the brunt of getting beat up and getting a label of losing Superbowls, which unfair to him. had no business there. He's taking inferior teams that far because he's that good. And I always felt bad for John Elway because then he started to play uphill. They got behind. They're playing uphill. It's predictable. He has to pass and it just becomes a struggle. But back to that era, when you have an era with Montana,

Moore to Consider (01:18:32.843)
Elway, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon. It's a phenomenal era. I don't look at the players today and see the same thing, but again, I'm going to be interested to see the comments because I know a lot of people are to the players are much better today. And I don't know that they are. Do you think that they're much better today?

Laura Giles (01:18:50.71)
I don't, for the same reason that you talked about with the being air conditioned. I think that makes a big difference, the air conditioning and the internet. Kids aren't outside.

Moore to Consider (01:19:01.635)
Yeah. And that's again, they're going to be the raw material is going to come from. What is your upbringing? And it's interesting because there are some kids that I run into, you know, in the 1920 range that I coach in that time rain. I coach kids in the summer as well. They're college age kids. A lot of them will look at Wink and nod and go, coach, I know you're right. It was better then. And, you know, all the reasons they acknowledge why, I mean, they. Again, it's one of those things that's not their fault.

Hell, if I'd had air conditioning and a video game when I'm 12, I'm not doing anything any different than the other 12 year old. mean, you he's like, well, in our day we had, yeah, we went outside because it was better. It was better than sitting inside sweltering heat and you had nothing else to do. Well, who the hell wouldn't play video games all day in air conditioning if they're 12, but they're inactive. And you know, you see, I think the food has a lot to do with it too. We can certainly get it right. You know, the nutritional thing.

Laura Giles (01:19:55.798)
Yes.

Moore to Consider (01:19:59.994)
And an odd thing on that, I may have told you this before, on the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination, some family discovered in a shoe box right around that time that daddy, you know, this band had passed away, had taken pictures on the day of the assassination. And I can't remember if it was on a roll. And then they developed them, but they are the most insanely crystal clear pictures from streetside.

Of Kennedy way further back in the motorcade law before he got shot. And there's just these insanely crystal clear pictures that was in daddy's camera on a roll or whatever the family discovered after his death in the shoe box. And they're like, Oh wow. So they released it publicly. So I'm showing a friend. like, can you believe, I mean, you can see the detail. It looks like the photograph was taken right in front of you in that moment. It's a transferring back in time to 1963. That's so clear.

And then a friend went, man, you notice something? I'm like, what, the crystal clear, the clear? He goes, no, look at the people. I'm like, okay. He goes, there's not a heavy person in that picture. And I went, holy cow. Everybody's razor thin, everyone. Now they're smoking cigarettes and drinking tabs, I guess, you know, that was kind of the thing. But I had a friend who just came back from Europe and she said, I ate an insane amount of food and lost 14 pounds. Like she comes back.

Laura Giles (01:21:07.938)
Yeah.

Yeah.

you

Moore to Consider (01:21:24.985)
And she goes, you would not believe what I ate, but I ate in Europe, everything I wanted. And I come home, I've lost 14 pounds. I hear those stories a lot. So the diet's poor, the additives, all the rest. Do you think we're going to get anywhere with that as a society? Do you think we're going to clean up things in America?

Laura Giles (01:21:43.488)
Let's see what RFK Jr. does. I don't know. It's systemic.

Moore to Consider (01:21:47.552)
RFJ good. Yeah. Now some of that, all the stuff that went on, where's he at with the confirmation? They voted him out of committee, right? They still haven't confirmed. I don't think. Yeah. But it's funny when you imagine senators like, what do you mean you want to clean up the food? You know, it's like big food is behind them. It's like,

Laura Giles (01:21:58.648)
I don't know.

Moore to Consider (01:22:09.154)
Some of the arguments that they make that they're kind of like defending the ugly nature of our food or something like we want to have the kids obese. What are you crazy? it's like, the hell is he really saying? He's like, let's go back to the food, not killing us. I think it's part of what he's saying. And let's make a little bit more sure if we're talking about things such as drugs, you know, that they're tested properly or whatever. But yeah, it is crazy that when you see a picture like that in 63.

Well, and I think Bobby Kennedy Jr. actually even said that he goes back in 1960, your standard issue pediatrician in 30 years of practice may have seen one diabetic kid like in 30 years of practice ever and would hardly ever see an obese kid. And now it's like, what is it like three out of every seven has diabetes? I mean, it's serious. Like it's really a crazy, I'm over, but it's like a really crazy number of kids.

that are obese and are borderline diabetic from it never seeing it. Like he goes, most people would go a whole career and never see kids in those conditions. And you see it. mean, go out shopping anywhere, go anywhere where you see congregations of average ordinary people. is really, it's sad, but it's really amazing how heavy people are now. And it's gotta be something. you know, being the food, cause you always hear that argument. They're making poor food choices. I don't know.

I think they're making food choices and I think it's kind of standard and with the price of things. And I don't know. I read a study the other day that said this whole go to this shop or that shop or, you know, go to the plate, the whole, I'm not, not going after any particular name store, but when you go for the, I'm going to eat organic or I'm going to eat this. That's not really much of an answer either. It's not, it's not the answer people think it is, but you're a nutritional expert. So what do you think on that? What do you do grow your own?

Laura Giles (01:24:02.446)
That's not really an option either because they say that if you test the soil there's all kinds of chemicals and heavy metals in the soil so you can't grow healthy food in unhealthy soil.

Moore to Consider (01:24:18.06)
What does the heavy metals exactly do? I mean at war, right? Right.

Laura Giles (01:24:20.982)
It's toxic, like aluminum for example is super high and aluminum is one of the things that contributes to Alzheimer's.

Moore to Consider (01:24:28.973)
Yeah, and I heard the other day that was it like everybody's got like a credit card worth of plastic. Like if you took a credit card out, that amount of plastic is in you right now. Yeah. And so is that a part of the Alzheimer's and things like that too? Or is it just the metals? Is it plastic and metals? Or do you know on that? Right, right. But they are here in the metals. Okay. Having said all that we've said today, I hope again,

Laura Giles (01:24:38.134)
I believe that.

Laura Giles (01:24:48.514)
I don't know.

Moore to Consider (01:24:57.592)
for people out there, please subscribe, please, you know, make notices, give likes, us try to build up some followers on this. Please leave comments about where we at. Is the game better? Is it worse? Is society better or worse for it? And do you still have interest in the Super Bowl? Is it overblown?

Laura Giles (01:25:21.206)
Is it fixed?

Moore to Consider (01:25:23.532)
Yeah. The fixed, think again, I could think last night could have even pumped that up even more. And that's what I said going in the game. The people before I was sitting with before the game started, I'm like, you know, the problem here is if the Eagles, I literally said they blow them out. Some are going to out. Okay. They overcorrected because everybody's afraid that the, was a, it was a fix for Kansas city. And if Kansas city wins, they're going to go up. There you go. Three Pete. it's once that's kind of in the room.

You just never overcome it. And it says a lot, but I do think part of the problem too, is sports betting. And part of that even, I remember 20 some odd years ago, kind of, for lack of a better term, this might be politically incorrect, like kind of nerdy friends that were into sports, but only to measure players value in a fantasy league. They're not fans.

Laura Giles (01:26:02.478)
Mm.

Moore to Consider (01:26:22.684)
They're not fans. you know, like, man, look at mantle, look at maze, look at Ted Williams, look at when they turned the barrel and drove the ball. but their, their value is their OPI. know, then they started spouting off these numbers about what their value is in a fantasy league. And, and so you don't follow players anymore where they played entire careers for cities either. And it's hard to be a fan. It's hard to be a fan of a team and your team splits up every two years. You win a playoff game or two. And the next thing you know, they,

They dismantle because of cost. And I've noticed it with kids. They don't really look at players for the pure aesthetics of like that guy throws well, runs well. They look at it from a standpoint of how much production there is. And I think that started in an environment of measuring players by do they make your fantasy team work? And think about it. If you're a kid 10 years ago and you're heavy into fantasy, what do you want?

You want to win on fan duel. You want to win on one of the platforms where you make money by the player performing. You're not in it for the team because you pick players from six different teams to make a lineup. And I've done it. I've played it. It's kind of fun. There's some fun to it, but it takes out the I'm in it for the team type of thing. I think people are still fans and there's no question about it. I actually ran into an Eagles fan last night after the game ended and I was like young guy.

And I was like, Hey, congratulations. And he was like, yeah, I think he kind of took him by surprise at first. goes, Oh, thank you. And, um, we got into the history and he's right. The NFC East now has more appearances in victory than any of the different divisions within the league. Washington's been there five times, one three Cowboys have been there eight times one five. I was trying to remember with the giants, they have lost against the Ravens.

that one year and they've won four, I think they're four and one. I can't remember if they lost another one or not. It's trying to come back to my head here. And now the Eagles have lost to the Patriots, beaten the Patriots, lost to the Chiefs, beaten the Chiefs and they lost years ago to the Raiders. So I think they're two and two and three, but that is a lot of, a lot of production or lot of appearances by the NFC East. And another thing that's weird in that eighties era,

Moore to Consider (01:28:46.474)
This brings up a balance issue. Would you rather have a league that anyone could win every year or potential dynasties?

Laura Giles (01:28:55.81)
I think anyone can win any year.

Moore to Consider (01:28:58.582)
I'm not a fan of that. No, I'm not because, and this is what I'm driving at. Not that you're wrong, but you go back to 1981, the 49ers from obscurity win the famous Dwight Clark catch Joe Montana's in the spotlight. So 81, they went Washington who now has Joe Gibbs comes in an 82 in a strike season, which Mars everything I get it, but they went the Superbowl in a strike season.

So it's San Francisco, Washington, 1983, the Redskins go 14 and two, go back to Superbowl and they get their ass kicked by the Raiders 38 to nine. So it was the ugliest day in Redskin history for me, but they're back in it. So now that's an AFC team winning it. Now 84, 49ers with Montana beat Marino. 85, the Bears have the great 15 and one season. The 85 Bears defense is famous. The Bears win.

86, the Giants and Lawrence Taylor, they win. 87, and another strike season, the Doug Williams game, the Redskins win. Then 88, 89, it's back to the 49ers. Then with the 49ers chance to three-peat, the Giants come back and beat them. So during that timeframe, you had San Francisco, Washington. The Redskins, you know, mess up and lose to the Raiders and kind of break the streak.

But then it's 49ers, then it's Bears, then it's Giants, then it's 49ers, 49ers, back to Giants, back to Redskins. So it's in a time, it was good for me as a Redskin fan, but it was in a time like, I know who's good. It's going to be Mon Chan and the 49ers. It might be the Bears. It could be LT and the Giants and we got a chance. So it was like big boy football where guys, it wasn't like,

team's terrible, then the next year they're great and the draft does it or trading. You knew every year. Now it may not have been so much fun to be like, pick a team. I mean, I could say the Saints, but the Saints actually started to get better during that time. But it could have been a time you were one of the others. It wasn't so much fun, but I think it was a time of excellence and those great teams lasted for a while. I'd rather be hope because now I've gone 30 years without Washington having much significance.

Moore to Consider (01:31:22.582)
I'd have much rather been in that era. I would have lived with the 30 years of obscurity to have lived that 12 years when we were in it all the time. I'll put it that way. And I just think it's cyclical. That's what's going to happen. History wise, sooner or later, you're probably going to be pretty good. And then you're to have a 20 year run where you're terrible. That's just kind of the way it goes. That's the balance of it. Any closing remarks you'd like to make? Bet on what you love football.

Laura Giles (01:31:39.342)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Laura Giles (01:31:47.456)
Yeah, how much I love football.

Moore to Consider (01:31:49.875)
You love it more now than ever, right? Do I have to give you one of these helmets or footballs to put in your background there? Okay. Okay. All right. Well, we'll work on that too. And appreciate you coming on and, in the fall, we'll talk about baseball world series, but people, people listening, please tell me who the greatest player is. Tell me where I'm wrong. Laura didn't really take too many, too many great stands on any particular player she stood for there, but tell me who the greatest players are in every position.

Laura Giles (01:32:00.907)
you

Moore to Consider (01:32:19.389)
Love to hear it. Thank you very much.