Fenway, Legends & the Love of the Game: A Deep Dive with Rob Fredette

Moore to Consider (00:01.151)
Welcome again to Moore to Consider. I have on Rob Fredette today. We did a show recently. Rob and I did a show on the Kennedy assassination and we found out as we do in this podcast and world, we had a lot of other things in common. I'm from Virginia for whatever reason, as a little guy, I loved to call you Stremski and then people like, Hey, from Boston, why are you a Red Sox fan? Like, I don't know for whatever reason. I love the Redskins in Washington, but I loved yes. Rob, you grew up.

Rob Fredette (00:03.548)
you

Moore to Consider (00:30.894)
22 miles you say from Boston, correct?

Rob Fredette (00:33.606)
That's correct. In North Andover, Massachusetts. It's a quick drive when you look back. I still remember going to games as growing up and it's one of my fondest memories.

Moore to Consider (00:45.08)
So now, give me a time frame. When was your first game in Fenway, you think, thereabouts?

Rob Fredette (00:51.872)
1981. So I remember seeing the Oakland A's there, sat in the grandstand, won like the second to last or last row. I've sat about everywhere at Fenway Park, except for the Green Monster seats. I've left Massachusetts years ago, but I have not sat in the Green Monster seats. But I remember going to see games with the Indians when they were really, really bad in the early 80s. And I also remember seeing the Yankees play as well at Fenway Park.

Moore to Consider (01:14.84)
Yes.

Rob Fredette (01:20.057)
when the Red Sox were okay in the 80s, before they got to the 86 World Series. countless games went to. I have the greatest memories going to those games. And I love the white uniforms. They are just awesome.

Moore to Consider (01:34.295)
You know, I've talked to people about that. said, you know, I, it's partly old man thing, but the red socks and Yankees and the red socks, like everybody in the seventies went through as fashion went bad. Anyway, everybody's going to the waistband of the colors. Everybody's wearing that. Yankees never did that. The Yankees kept the belts, but they still went polyester. looked bad. So the red socks go through their bad period, red caps and all the rest. They're in the world series in 75 in that, but then they go back to.

the belts and the white pants and the, and the red socks and the old English, you know, in the lettering as we have here, but I do, I think Yankees red socks and their road uniforms. In fact, the socks were always B O S T O N Navy number on the back, gray, gray. And then they went to some color. put the name on the back, which they didn't do with the home uniform. But yeah, I think the red socks rocket. I, the cap you have on is the best baseball cap to me in baseball.

Yankees is hard to beat too, but that's the history of the game that we all respect and love. So 1981. So, uh, this is a, you a little story. You'll appreciate this. I'm in Florida a few years ago with the baseball buddy of mine and a group of guys come in that are doing a national organization to get ready to travel. And they stopped there in Florida, the guy that runs the indoor facility, six years in the big leagues, Dominican guy, beautiful guy there in Florida.

My buddy played at Norfolk state and, um, actually he's from New York. He's from Brooklyn, but he grew up in Virginia. So I'm Dan, I know some really good people and you know, maybe I'm going to be the coach guy. go around like, Hey, Jack Moore, nice to meet you. And Tamari Story Harden who played in the Dodgers organization is my brother now. And I love this guy. So we're really close friends Tamari He's there. He's like six, seven played first base in the Dodgers organization. And I'm working the room. And then I'm up close to this guy. And I swear to you.

Rob Fredette (03:11.489)
Thanks.

Moore to Consider (03:30.805)
My mind goes, I know this person. I'm like, Jack Moore, pleased to meet you. And he goes, Reggie Smith, really pleased to meet you too. And I went, my God, it's Reggie Smith. So I worked the rest of the room and now I'm fanboying, right? So I come over and I'm like, sir, I got to tell you, I loved you as a kid. I really appreciate hearing that. Well, Gary Lavelle, a close friend of mine, pitched with him one year in San Francisco. And I thought, Gary Lavelle's a god.

Rob Fredette (03:33.655)
Ha!

Rob Fredette (03:39.062)
Rob Fredette (03:46.795)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (03:59.638)
How's Gary doing? Love Gary. Gary's a great guy. Come back, chill Gary. I saw Reggie Smith. But I asked him, said, man, you came up at what? 1920? Yup, yup. Came up really young. He's on the 67 miracle dream team, impossible dream team. And I asked him the question, and this is one of the dark sides of baseball. I said, what do you remember about Canigliaro being hit? goes, Jack, I was in the on deck circle. And I was like, wow. He goes, yeah, I was standing right there.

He goes, you know what, and all my time in baseball, I never saw a guy get hit and the ball went nowhere. Now I've looked at the film and the ball doesn't go far. It's like it hit him and it went straight to the ground. And he said, you know, last rights were administered, I think a couple of times we thought he was dead because I've never seen a guy get hit like that. And of course, as a Red Sox fan, we recognize he's a local guy and Tony Canigliaro might have been that guy that he's got more home runs at 21 than anyone in history.

Rob Fredette (04:33.484)
Hmm.

Rob Fredette (04:56.575)
Mm-hmm.

Moore to Consider (04:56.992)
he comes on the scene. He's in that great season, of course, with the eye injury and some other health issues, his career just completely gets stopped. But I met Reggie Smith and, I got Yastrzemski's autograph once. I'm putting this out on the internet, but this was pretty crazy. I have three kids in the Red Sox organization I've worked with. Pick a year. It's like, '08, I think.

So I go down, see Dewey, I see Dwight Evans, got 24. He looks great. He's 50 some. He looks like he'd play right then. I see Tommy Harper, Jim Rice shows up and there's a guy with white hair down on the AAA field. And the guy down on the AAA field, he's got white hair, nothing on, no name, no number, no nothing. So I come back up, there's three kids in minor league ball that I know. One grew up with me at Virginia Beach, one pitched at Clemson, the other guy pitched at Carolina. So I'm just down there.

Rob Fredette (05:29.327)
You

Moore to Consider (05:53.227)
I've done some player rep, but these were just kids I knew. So I'm down there, stand around, ball gets fouled off. It lands, it's pristine, it's sitting there. And this guy's walking along with his kids, seven and nine probably. And I'm like, hey sir, here's the ball. You want to get some autographs? He's got the Sharpie hanging. He's got the kids. And then he goes, oh sir, I really appreciate that. You got a son playing? I'm like, nah, nah, nah. know some kids that are playing here. They're in Pro Ball and I just came down to see them.

Rob Fredette (06:01.749)
Thank you.

You

Rob Fredette (06:17.075)
It's not.

Moore to Consider (06:19.723)
So it's a double A field, triple A field, single A, high A, low A. So all the satellite fields. And he goes, Hey, isn't that cool that Yastrzemski's down there on the, on the other field? And I went, wait a minute. The guy with the white hair. Yeah, that's Yas. And I'm like, Oh, I guess that is, isn't it? He goes, Hey, here's your ball back. Here's his Sharpie. Go get his autograph. And I swear to you, I'm thinking, no way. Like, how am going to get his autograph? So I walked down and you know, on those satellite fields, you don't have it. They're not.

Rob Fredette (06:22.408)
Yeah

Rob Fredette (06:42.899)
You

Moore to Consider (06:49.499)
They're just chain-link fences with dugouts. All of a sudden this guy shows up with like a 12 year old kid and Yaz knows him. So he leaves from behind the batting cage and heads right over and it's right out of Seinfeld, Snoop, the soup Nazi. All these people zombie like start walking towards him. And I get in line and I've got the ball in the Sharpie and this person's like, hi, Mr. You're saying, you know, and he starts signing it. So when I get to him, I'm like,

Rob Fredette (06:51.666)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (07:03.389)
Yeah

Moore to Consider (07:17.749)
Hi, Mr. Yastrzemsmki. You were my favorite player. he goes, God, son of a, you know, and he signs it, but he's like pissed. And I'm like, wow. Okay. So I had, I had him, he hands me the ball. I get out of there. The next person has an eight by 10 glossy. They could probably sell and he leaves. He walks away. So he leaves like four other people. So at the end of the day, the kid from Clemson that pitched, I see him, he goes, I'm going to shower. Good. We're going to meet the wife at, you know,

Rob Fredette (07:25.242)
Wow.

Moore to Consider (07:48.018)
like, chilies or something. We're going to go in town. So we go to dinner and it's like the spit take. was like, Hey, I got Yaz's autograph. He's like, what? And I go, yeah, I got, as I got, yes. His autograph. goes, dude, when we came to spring training, we were told, don't look at Mr. Yastrzemski. Yeah. So he said, if Yaz, talks to the player about hitting back off, leave them alone. So I think the directive was pretty much.

Rob Fredette (07:50.887)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (07:57.957)
Yeah

Rob Fredette (08:05.145)
my gosh!

Moore to Consider (08:15.07)
But God love him. I got his autograph, but I'll just say definitely the environment. Like I saw Evans talk to everybody, Dwight Evans and how many, everybody loved Dwight. I think everybody loved Yaz, but he did seem to be very business-like on the field. And the fact that I walked up and got his autograph to me to this day, I can't believe it. Cause when the guy said, here's the ball and the Sharpie, I'm like, why would he sign something? And then when I saw the opportunity,

Rob Fredette (08:40.39)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (08:42.301)
it worked out. Do you have a lot of nice memorabilia that you've collected through the years?

Rob Fredette (08:46.353)
I have some. I have a Mo Von autographed baseball. Good story about that. I was working in Miami in the mid 90s at Pro Player Stadium and one of the guys I worked with was a bouncer at a bar during the spring training of the Red Sox and he was working at, I guess, one of the strip clubs and got Mo Von's autograph. So he got me the ball. I have another one.

When I was working at WHDH radio in Boston, this was 1988 or 89, when Roger Clemens was there, he came into the sports talk show I was working at, it the sports huddle with Eddie Endelman, and it was on Sunday nights and Jim McCarthy and Mark Wicken were on and Roger Clemens was a guest. So at that time, that's when the players were starting to charge for autographs. so there was a radio station on the other side, WBOS, and one of the guys,

Moore to Consider (09:28.083)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (09:43.139)
was the husband of one of the DJs there of the station. And he brought like 10 baseball cards of Roger Clemens in. really cool. So at the end of the interview, there was a few of us in the room there. And we asked, can you sign the card? And he's like, yeah, no prob. He could not have been nicer. Someone asked, you're not going to charge us. But I have it in a nice glass case for over, god, 35 years. It's not authenticated, but I have it.

The fact that he signed it, could not have been nicer. So, you know, I was fanboy then, so I had to admit. Those are the two instances I have autographs. But yeah, it's pretty cool when you get those autographs of the players. Other Red Sox memorabilia, I have Celtics memorabilia, but those are the two Red Sox ones. I have all the Red Sox caps from like the World Series. This is the 2004 cap with the emblem on the side.

So I still have that, still fits good. But yeah, my fondest memories of the Red Sox, the old ticket stubs I have too, from when I went back of like the games were like what, $7.50 tickets. They were so cheap back then. So I have that as a memorabilia. And I also have some unused tickets that I've never, never went to the games. And I have those as well. So I'm not getting rid of those.

Moore to Consider (10:53.138)
Sure.

Moore to Consider (11:04.873)
Now you're younger than I am. And of course, uh, I don't greatly remember the 67 world series. I kind of, like I said, grew to love Yastrzemski coming out of that. first real memory of the red Sox was probably more early seventies, 71, 72, 73 timeframe. So when they make the world series in 75, what I distinctly remember as the red Sox fan, and it still hurts to this day.

I'm going to tell you what, having rice and Fred Lynn come up at the same time is a huge lightning strike. And the fact you had Dwight Evans right before that, I think the summer before that to have three outfielders enter your organization, have Cecil Fielder and you, I'm sorry, Cecil Cooper, and you have George Scott on the way back in 78, but you've got Yaz and Juan Beníquez was a good player and Miller.

Rob Fredette (11:56.011)
Okay.

Moore to Consider (12:01.064)
played some center field. They were so deep and outfielders and you know, I thought Rick Burleson was one of the better short stops at the time. Rico Petricelli is on his way. He's on his way out. You know, in second base was kind of, you know, they went from Doyle to Remy. But my point is with Fisk behind the plate in 75 when they lose it, if you go back and look, the Red Sox scored 30 runs in seven games, the Reds scored 29, but you have to win.

Rob Fredette (12:11.98)
After Sally.

Moore to Consider (12:30.578)
You know, four games and not three could have gone either way if your objective and the Reds was probably one of the greatest lineups we'll ever see in history. got Rose Morgan bench Perez all in the same order. think, I think Concepcion was one of the greatest players of his era, you know, shortstop. So it's a great series. Boston was never really known for pitching. Tiant had a special series, but where I'm going is at the point I thought, and they're to be good for 10 years. It's going to be a run.

Rob Fredette (12:32.084)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (12:59.869)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (13:00.968)
And then 76, not so good 77. There's kind of some issues 78. Of course we know the Bucky Den home run. So we know I still remember 86. I've gone to a college to work and I'm coaching baseball and I'm at this school and I met a Red Sox fan out in this, like, uh, the college square after the game six. And I remember the kid was like a walking zombies, a Red Sox fan. And I'm like, what the hell just happened? And he was like,

Rob Fredette (13:26.026)
It's.

Moore to Consider (13:30.696)
Did we just lose that game? Like that? Did we just, were we just like one strike away? I mean, did that just happen? And to address one major point of that, I saw Bill Buckner at a, at a hot stove dinner several years ago. I he's passed away, I think three years ago, something like that. And it was so sad because he's a borderline hall of fame player. He's pretty close. He had a great career, a lot of longevity, a lot of hits, always a high batting average.

And he has to open this talk with, well, let me just get right to it. I missed the ground ball, blah, blah, blah. And I asked people, what was the score when he missed the ground ball? They're like, it was a 17 run era. Right? I mean, when he makes the error that I was like, no, the score was already tied. Bob Stanley had just known the wild pitch that had tied the game and Charaldy couldn't get out of the inning after getting the first two guys out. And I've seen Charaldy say, I always felt bad because Buckner took all the heat.

And I didn't get the third out, you know, so Stanley comes in, bless his heart. You know, you know how it finished. And I always thought it was unfair because if Buckner makes the play and can still beat Mookie Wilson to the bag, we don't know what happens the next inning. The Red Sox have blown a lead. They're demoralized. Maybe they not ever. Now, is it true when the ground ball reaches right field, the game is over? Yes. But I never looked at it as being fair to say that Buckner lost the game. There's a lot of events that occurred before that.

Rob Fredette (14:47.979)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (14:54.792)
Thank you.

Moore to Consider (14:57.857)
And I just felt bad that a guy with his career had to spend the rest of his life kind of quasi apologizing for a moment on the field when he shouldn't have been out there in the first place. Many have said, you know, Dave Stapleton came into play defense at the end of all the games. And I think it was that McNamara wanted him on the field when they made the last out. So through somewhat of a sentimental type of let's leave Buckner on the field. He's there to be exposed on the ground ball.

Rob Fredette (15:12.239)
Yeah

Moore to Consider (15:27.451)
What were your feelings on the Buckner thing?

Rob Fredette (15:29.735)
Well, I was devastated. I, at that time, I was at the University of Maryland and I lived with two New Yorkers who were my roommates and game six was utter horror. And when the Red Sox lost game seven, I pretty much was demoralized for about a week.

Moore to Consider (15:35.451)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (15:52.615)
The one thing I remember about the Buckner play, it just happened so fast and I can still remember Vince Gullison and Ray Knight going in with his arms up in the air and that you can't really, mean Bill Buckner unfortunate to happen. He probably lived with it but I love the fact that the Red Sox, I forget what year it was but they actually hadn't come out and throw the first pitch. Yeah.

Moore to Consider (15:56.496)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (16:00.452)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (16:16.07)
I think it was 05 after they finally won it in 04. Yeah.

Rob Fredette (16:19.366)
And I think that really like closed the door on that because Red Sox fans are very, very forgiving. And I think that closed the book. And when I still see that on YouTube, I just think it's awesome. when you look at the 85, 86, I mean, so the 86 World Series, mean, the Red Sox, they were in both games. were, mean, that game six and to even come back in game seven the way they did. And it's even though they lost, you know,

Moore to Consider (16:43.907)
Right. Right.

Rob Fredette (16:47.769)
They were up 3-0 in the second inning. And they had that fight. But the Red Sox, the Yanks, the Bats, scored 3 in the 6th, 3 in the 7th, and 2 in the 8th. So the Red Sox had that fight. I mean, every game is its own chapter. I always say that. But they scored 3 in that second inning. And it just, it was horrible. It was utter, utter devastation.

Moore to Consider (17:14.246)
So if you grew up in the era I did, and I didn't, of course I wasn't around in 46, but for the people that live with the 46 World Series were very cognizant of the 67 World Series, 75, 78 Bucky Dent game. To have this happen, there was a window of people that were at an age where they may have seen it all. And to not make it to 2004, plenty of those people, if they were around from 46, they might not have been around for 04. I will say,

And of course this is an asinine thing to put out on the internet, but I'm not kidding you. When they played the way they did in game four of the series with the Yankees, I had this funny feeling like, know, that group of guys, if anybody's going to come down from three and do this, it might be them. So the law, you've seen the film. It's very famous. I think it's a, what is it? Shaughnessy with the new England press. He's like, Hey,

Rob Fredette (18:08.24)
Mm-hmm.

Moore to Consider (18:11.599)
Don't let us win tonight. You know, this was the game for, cause if we win the night and we come back with Schilling and Petey and we go, we're going to win this. And they're like, yeah, yeah, of course you are. And goes, no, no, no, seriously. Don't let us win tonight. Cause if we win tonight and the way he was saying, he's like, all right, the pitching is going to line up and you know, can Schilling and Pedro do it? And started thinking like, man, they believe this. So I'm sure you've seen like the four days of October or whatever it is, the, like little documentary series they did on it.

Rob Fredette (18:14.657)
Hahaha!

Rob Fredette (18:39.299)
Thank you.

Moore to Consider (18:40.975)
I was talking to a fan the other day in a setting like this. And I said, I think about big moments like what if Bledsoe never gets hurt? We don't know who Tom Brady is possibly. So we could get into that too. But I said, what if Dave Roberts trips falls, doesn't steal the bag? Because remember his run was the tying run. And then Ortiz came through late and well, in the discussion we were in, I have a statistician buddy that says,

Rob Fredette (18:50.473)
Hahaha

Moore to Consider (19:09.381)
All this idea that fans have of clutch is not real. That everything that happens in sports is random samples. Some guys get hot. I'm like, I don't care what you tell me. David Ortiz is the most clutch human being to ever play the game. I don't care. I don't care what you say. Cause cause I saw it, you know, I'm like, you know, and you look at this in 2013 when they beat the Cardinals, I think what the team at one 50 and he at six 50.

Rob Fredette (19:24.319)
He is the most quiet.

Rob Fredette (19:38.657)
Mm-hmm.

Moore to Consider (19:39.172)
completely carried him. So I'm a big Ortiz fan. Totally. I got a Dominican buddy that went to high school with him and you know, knows seems like all the Santa Domingo guys. I know they'd all know each other, but him and Ortiz are tight. And I remember seeing a thing on Ortiz where he got released from the twins. The person I was talking to wasn't aware of this. He got released from the twins. Pedro calls, hey brother, how you doing? He goes, not so good. I don't have a job. Hey, give me 20 minutes.

And that's when he talked to red, that's what he talked to red Sox into bringing him to spring training and the rest is history. He was a non roster invitee and he made the team. Yeah. But the twins kind of got down on them, whatever, whatever that story was. But, I heard, Peter gamuts said it was Williams. It was Yaz. spend some guys, but the guy now the most loved is Ortiz cause he got him the ranks.

Rob Fredette (20:14.24)
That is unbelievable.

Rob Fredette (20:35.712)
Yeah, and the thing about the 2004 season, I mean, they had to come back from losing game seven against the Yankees in 2003. the, just the, just the, I don't even know how to explain it. Just the, the four to two, just to come back in 2004 and do what they did. And when you look at the series against the Yankees, games four and five went into extra innings, game four in the 12th and game five in the 14th. And

Moore to Consider (20:45.185)
Absolutely.

Moore to Consider (21:04.802)
Right, right.

Rob Fredette (21:06.075)
It's, I mean, and like you mentioned Dave Roberts, if he didn't mean that you watch that slide 100 times, that is like so close. It's a game of inches. Unbelievable.

Moore to Consider (21:14.179)
Bang, Yep. Bang, bang. Absolutely. Well, in that documentary, they got a camera crew. They don't know what's going to happen, but they got a camera crew there that's following the team. And, know, I made the comment. I've known some kids that have played for Terry Francona. I hear that Francona, was, you know, his first rounder, his dad played in the big leagues. He's a baseball guy. Like he's, he's in on the hot foots. He's kind of a clubhouse guy because he was a player. And you see in this

camera crew that's in the dugout. He looks at Roberts. goes, Hey, if a Malar gets on, you're going to steal me a bag. You ready? Yeah. All right. Get tight to tighten up the shoes. Let's go. And it's just like that. And Dave's like, I got you. got you. Yeah. You need a bag stolen. So Malar walks. So Mariana Rivera is on the mound. Walks Kevin Malar. Boom. He's in. Now he has to steal the bag. He has to get off first base and everybody knows it. Exactly. Exactly. And that's what I say. Trips fall stumbles. He's out.

Rob Fredette (22:05.106)
and everybody knows he's gonna steal.

Moore to Consider (22:12.419)
The Red Sox probably don't have, I mean, they might've come back maybe, but it's a, well, I think it was eighth inning, right? When the run scored, they tie the game and it's beautiful stuff. got a buddy I had on today talking, hitting. There was an indoor facility where Manny Ramirez found them online and started coming up. So I find out from my friend, I'm like, dude, you're holding out on me. And he's like, no, no. He goes, he goes, uh, you know, Manny's coming to hit here in North Carolina. So, uh, I.

Rob Fredette (22:20.648)
Yep.

Moore to Consider (22:42.551)
go down there. He's like, well, he's here tonight if you want to come. And I'm like, you know, I'm like, okay, what's this going to be like? He was hysterical. He was a lot of fun. And, for the people that, that was me and Manny. yeah, it was two days of that. We're in the building and, he was on his way to Japan. So he finds out about my buddy. So, you know, I'm fan boy. Well, I mean, we just, we hit it off. He's neat guy.

Rob Fredette (22:59.168)
that is sweet!

Moore to Consider (23:12.61)
But, uh, I said to him like, uh, like how tight are you in Ortega? Oh yeah. I talked to him all the time. They're really tight. Well, I, I, well, you know, they still stay in touch, but now he grows up in New York, you know, he's Dominican, but like 13, 14, he moves to New York and grows up there. But I remember seeing something in one of those stretches and oh seven. He's the MVP of the world series. They were the greatest three, four combination of destruction offensively sense and only.

Rob Fredette (23:19.709)
You

Moore to Consider (23:41.952)
Ruth and Gary, I get, you know, like they were that good. And I think people forget just what they did. I mean, you know, they won two together and they go on to win some others. And so now you think of the person, this is what really strikes me coaching now, athletes, kids are born after nine 11 that are playing. So.

Rob Fredette (23:43.033)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rob Fredette (24:05.882)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (24:07.591)
All they know is kind of Red Sox success. That other backside of the 20th century, don't have any, you know, what do mean y'all were losing team? You've won four world series, you know? And so it has changed the dynamics. And it's so, it's different to be a Red Sox fan. I like.

Rob Fredette (24:24.506)
Yeah, well if you've never experienced the devastation of losing Bucky Dent or 1975 or 1986 and 2004 is, it's surreal when you look at it because the Red Sox had to go to Yankee Stadium and win games 6 and 7. And that's not an easy task. And I think as each game went on, the pressure was definitely on the Yankees. You could see like game 7, they were tight.

Moore to Consider (24:43.169)
That is correct.

Now.

Moore to Consider (24:51.131)
yeah.

Rob Fredette (24:53.208)
And then when Johnny Damon hit those two home runs in game seven, was like when Joe Bucks said, Johnny Damon's going off. And you know, the series was amazing. But I remember too, about 2004 real quick is the, had the keep the faith signs in Boston, you know, when they were down. And I remember that with the signage there. And it was just, everything was loose. Like Kevin Millar, you had said. I think that

Moore to Consider (25:01.387)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (25:20.003)
When you look back at it now, I still find it hard to believe they beat the Yankees when you look back.

Moore to Consider (25:24.897)
Well, you know, as a coach, I think one thing we do, especially at the college level, if the team is loose and plays poorly, you weren't focused enough. You should have been, you know, you should have been spitting nails and eating baseballs you should have been, because that's kind of after the fact. What's interesting though, and I know it's the major league level, but what's interesting is in that little documentary series they do.

David Ortiz comes into the clubhouse down 03, they're playing Latin music heavy. He's dancing around in the clubhouse. All the guys are loose. Everybody's got to dip in. They're spitting in a cup. They're playing cards and they asked Terry Francona. What are you going to do down 03? And he goes, they're guys. I like my guys. think my guys are going to, aren't you nervous? Did you have a team talk? Did you go in there? And he goes, they're men. They know what to do.

Rob Fredette (26:11.136)
Hahaha

Moore to Consider (26:18.977)
They're going to play. And after the first one, what do you think now? It's what we are. They win the next one. What do you think? And he's kind of like, I told you they're guys. They're going to do what they're going to do. And I think it's true that as hard as it is for the fan to accept when they were down, three, this is what they knew. We win tonight. We get to play tomorrow. We win again. We get, and I think that's literally what happens at that level. And let's face it. What's the worst thing that's going to happen there. Multi-millionaires generally, they got a pretty good light. Right.

Rob Fredette (26:39.211)
and

Moore to Consider (26:48.548)
And I think that they were a loose group. And again, at that level, guys have told me that are played at that level. You don't have clubhouse meetings rarely. You just play, you show up, you do your thing, but they were definitely a loose group. They were. Yeah.

Rob Fredette (27:04.225)
They were. I'm looking at the lineup here just to like Gabe Kapler, David Ortiz, Johnny Damon, Manny Ramirez, Bill Miller, Polky Reese, who they got in a trade, Mark Bellhorn, who could forget Mark Bellhorn, Kevin Millar, and Jason Veritek. I mean, that was just, that was a killer lineup. Unbelievable.

Moore to Consider (27:14.346)
Yeah. Yeah.

Moore to Consider (27:24.0)
Yeah. know, Trott Nixon is a North Carolina guy. And I remember people talking about him before the draft and, uh, now Trott was around in 04 too, right? Yeah. He was right. Yeah. He was part of the 04 team and 07. Yeah. And, uh, you know, was always happy to see him do well because he's next state over and I always heard great things about him and he's first rounder and, um, was a great player. was a great player. And yeah, the Red Sox had that really nice run and, uh,

Rob Fredette (27:34.922)
Yes, he was. He was on the team.

Moore to Consider (27:54.299)
It did change the dynamic because let's see, Yankees have won one World Series in the 21st century. They've had 2009. Yeah, that's it. Right. So it's been a better century, but it's funny, know, Ortiz did the really funny thing where he walked around New York trying to get hugs from Yankees fans. You remember that, that whole, yeah. So, I do think.

Rob Fredette (28:00.886)
2009 2009. Yeah

Moore to Consider (28:20.254)
that that as you get older is one of the beauties like growing up a Washington Redskins fan. You know, I hated Tom Landry and the Cowboys. And then after Landry's death, you know, you go, he was a fine man. He was a fighter pilot in World War II when he was 20 years old. Tom Landry was a was a man that did really great things. Roger Staubach. How the hell do you not like Roger Staubach? You know, right. So you after a while, you grow up and go, hey, you know, the beauty of the Redskins cowboy rivalry was that they were the two different teams.

Rob Fredette (28:40.371)
Yeah, Naval Academy.

Moore to Consider (28:48.927)
So through the years, I don't know that I've ever respected or loved the player from afar as a fan than Mariano Rivera. Like what a class act. I mean, you know, he's wonderful. And the fact he got booed in 05 by Yankees fans after that series, I'm like, man, you cannot, one thing Yankees fans listen, you can't boo Mariano Rivera. No, no, you can't.

Rob Fredette (29:10.78)
No, not him, not at all. You know, it's, when you look back at it and you mentioned David Ortiz, ESPN Sports Center had like a promo where they had David Ortiz, Jorge Posada, and a few ESPN broadcasters. And he was, he had the Yankees hat and he was trying to show them how to put the Yankees hat. So Ortiz puts the Yankees hat on and he looks outside and Wally, the mascot's walking by and he goes, Wally!

Moore to Consider (29:26.303)
That's right.

Moore to Consider (29:36.829)
Yes!

That is a beautiful, I know exactly the one you're talking about. And for fans that are listening, yeah. So fans that are watching this that aren't obsessed with the team as we are, the wall is 37 feet high. So they have a mascot that is a big green blob of something that has 37 on a Red Sox jersey and he's Wally for the wall. Yeah. And so we're teased. think.

Rob Fredette (29:43.239)
Wally, it's not what you think!

Moore to Consider (30:03.548)
Posada says something like, I'm a catcher. never, I never break my cap in right. And Ortiz like, get it. You know, and he starts to do like, you say the breaking in and here comes Wally and he sees Ortiz wearing a Yankees cap. He looks all dejected. Yeah. so ESPN did a lot of really good stuff then. they did one where Josh Hamilton's at the coffee machine with the ESPN guy in the Mets baseball mascot.

Rob Fredette (30:17.789)
He goes, Wally, it's not what you think.

Rob Fredette (30:24.295)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (30:33.118)
comes through. And he looks at Hamilton and looks miffed and walks away. And Hamilton's like, what did do? And he goes, some of those balls you hit in the home run hitting contest. He goes, yeah, he goes, they were his cousins.

That's a great lie. They were his cousins.

Rob Fredette (30:49.329)
They did come out with some really nice commercials, the Red Sox Yankees won. I wonder if they had to get permission for David Ortiz to wear that Yankees hat because somebody may have taken it very seriously.

Moore to Consider (31:03.41)
Well, you know, there's a famous film of DiMaggio wearing, cause back then when they were on the road, the Yankees Red Sox uniforms were almost identical. It was just gray uniform. So there was a time that the, there's a film of DiMaggio in Boston with his gray Yankees pants. He throws a Red Sox jersey on in a cap. And it was as a joke. Yes. He's warming up and playing catch.

Rob Fredette (31:28.28)
Moore to Consider (31:31.57)
with Boston in the Boston cap and it got all over the media. There was talk that because he's hitting into that four 60 Grand Canyon in Yankee stadium and Ted Williams is pulling the ball down pesky pole, but he's got a shorter wall. There was talk that they switched teams. I think that was actually a thing. What if DiMaggio, what if DiMaggio hit in Boston? And what if Ted Williams hitting in Yankee stadium? It wasn't ever going to happen, but it was an interesting trade rumor.

Rob Fredette (32:01.87)
Wow, that is unbelievable. You know, when you think about Red Sox history, you got to think about Ted Williams. In my opinion, one of the top five all-time players. mean, he could have easily had 700 home runs if he had not fought in what? Two wars, five years? And one thing I didn't realize, he won two triple crowns. I thought it was just one, but he won two.

Moore to Consider (32:18.845)
Two wars, yeah.

Moore to Consider (32:26.749)
I'm going tell you, there's a guy that puts something together on YouTube. Now let me back up and say this in 1986, when I was coaching college baseball, I was at a hot stove dinner and I heard, I heard Bobby Richardson speak at that. was one the most beautiful human beings I've ever met. I was at Lewisburg college and there was a young lady there that was the daughter of Enos Slaughter.

And she's like, I want you to meet my dad. So he in a slaughter 75 at the time he's just made it to the hall of fame. And then Williams gets up to speak and Williams gets up. And the first thing out of his mouth is young man. One day you're to tell your grandchildren, you saw Ted Williams and he was tall, lean and good looking. And that's how he opened. So he's telling stories and talking about playing, but what was that I took in as an historian that I thought was so special is.

In his talk, Williams goes, I'd like to recognize one of the greatest competitors I ever saw in the game, Ennis Slaughter. And Slaughter gets choked up. Ted, he gives him the salute and I went, that's Ted Williams and Ennis Slaughter, like recognizing each other in the room, right? So I read the Lee Montville, I was talking about this the other day on a podcast, I read the biography of Williams. And what's really sad,

Rob Fredette (33:35.364)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (33:43.404)
Can I smoke weed?

Moore to Consider (33:49.979)
And this guy was unaware of this. The people that are there as Williams is dying. He's been through three wives. There was a woman that stuck it out all the time for him. That was kind of his caretaker in the end. He dies at, think 82 ish and the three guys that never leave his sides, Bobby door, Johnny pesky and Dom DiMaggio. So he had Dom DiMaggio were really close. And they, and now I know Bobby door and DiMaggio grew up in California.

Rob Fredette (34:12.212)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (34:18.333)
think it was Bobby Dore that said Ted Williams was really the first of the latchkey kids. He's born in 1918, but his mom was big in the Salvation Army, was never home. His father, I think was a traveling salesman, was gone a lot. So he was left to his own devices. So I believe it was Bobby Dorey would go to his house. They all grew up in the California and the Pacific Coast league. They were playing there when 18, 19 years old, getting signed to major league clubs. And

Rob Fredette (34:30.028)
Thank you.

Moore to Consider (34:47.927)
I really, I remember Costas, Bob Costas was interviewing him one time and he goes, you know, you are the guy that John Wayne played. Williams goes, I asked him a bit. Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. Whatever. goes, no, I mean, like you were a fighter pilot, a Marine, and you're the best player in baseball. You're the best hitter. You're Hollywood handsome. You're Marian models. You know, you're, you're, you're John Wayne. And he's like, yeah, whatever. You can call it whatever you want.

Rob Fredette (34:58.057)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (35:04.917)
Yeah.

Thanks.

Moore to Consider (35:16.092)
But it's, it's a sad story when you read, um, really a lot of the anger he had from his youth towards the press. What turned them off about the press is after like one of his first, his rookie season was insane. 145 RBIs. He had this great, yeah, there's no rookie of the year award yet, but he's clearly that guy. Then the local papers write he goes fishing, you know, and he was a world-class fisherman.

Rob Fredette (35:17.996)
and

Rob Fredette (35:33.95)
Yeah, man.

Moore to Consider (35:44.7)
He goes fishing, he's 21 years old or whatever. And somebody writes like, yeah, what kind of kid is this? He didn't go home to see his mom for the, for the winter break. And that sets him off. None of your business. It's like, don't cross that line with me. So when I was doing player representation, I had an attorney buddy that wanted to do it. It's the worst business on earth, but I represented some players where I helped his friend. I got to meet a lot of old scouts. And this is a great story.

Rob Fredette (36:11.813)
Listen.

Moore to Consider (36:13.399)
I'm a stand around. love this guy. He's long since passed. I'm sure when I knew him in 2004 ish about 20 years ago, he was probably 65, maybe a little bit better. He pitched in 55 with the Red Sox. He's six six always had to chew in, always called me Jackie, beautiful guy. So one day I'm like, Hey, like you play with Ted Williams. yeah. Yeah. Jackie. I play, I play with Ted back in 55. Yeah. Yeah. He's back from Korea. He'd been a couple of years back from Korea. And I said,

Rob Fredette (36:16.706)
Good night.

Okay.

Moore to Consider (36:42.555)
Did he hit till his hands bled? Like he goes, he hit like everybody else. He took BP, but he was just better than everybody else. He goes, but he goes, but Jack, I'll tell you a great story. You know, we throw live BP there first part of spring training. go, yeah. He goes, you know, sometimes they put a screen out, but you're throwing live. And we had this 21 year old kid from Texas. It's his first spring training and he puts a ball right on the corner. Williams Lance takes it. And he goes, the guy goes, Hey, the hell was wrong with that pitch?

Rob Fredette (36:49.277)
Yeah, exactly.

Moore to Consider (37:12.101)
And he goes, we're around the cage like, gosh, he didn't, no, he didn't do that. He goes, you could see the anger. Now this is 35, six, seven year old Ted Williams. He goes, you could see the anger in his eyes. And he goes, Jack, as I stand here, I swear to you, he went next pitch, hit it right by his ear. Guy yells out, Hey, Mr. Williams will let you know when it's a strike.

Rob Fredette (37:33.235)
No!

Moore to Consider (37:39.737)
And he goes, now he's super pissed. And he goes, Jack, as I'm standing here, it was like in the woods, in the woods, in the woods, every swing. He just started driving it deeper and deeper. And then he dropped the bat and left pissed. And every guy was like, Hey, you might not want to piss off Ted anymore. He goes, Jack, I, I stood there and watched that happen. He was that good. First, he sent the message of a ball up the middle, right by the pitcher. And then he got mad. Just started lifting home runs. And when he got in the groove.

Rob Fredette (37:53.616)
Wow.

Rob Fredette (37:57.384)
Wow.

Moore to Consider (38:09.348)
There was nobody better. But he said, yeah, I saw him play every day. So the thing you were saying about the two, the two years he won the triple crown, somebody posted on YouTube an argument for something like eight to 11 MVPs he should have won. And it was because of the press. Brother, I'm telling you, when this guy put this together and he's running the numbers, it's ridiculous. Some of the years that he got shafted.

Rob Fredette (38:26.506)
Mm.

Rob Fredette (38:36.054)
yeah!

Moore to Consider (38:39.258)
Because he wasn't liked. Now, of course, 41 is famous because DiMaggio hits, I don't know, 325 or so and has the 41 or 40, a 56 game hitting streak. But that's the 406 that Ted Williams hits over 400 and doesn't win the MVP. And there's ones that are criminal and the guy's like, so he's making the argument as much as you said, given the timeframe of World War II, he's out in 43, 44 and 45.

Rob Fredette (38:49.744)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (38:59.096)
it.

Rob Fredette (39:08.731)
Yup.

Moore to Consider (39:08.824)
And then Korea and in the book they talk about, they go through the Rolodex of guys that flew in world war II. And they're like, and we're flying jets now in Korea and we don't have anybody at Williams. Great eyesight, great reaction. They put them in a jet and send them right back through it. He's not happy about it, but then he flies two more years. He was asked at the end of his career, what's the greatest team you ever played for? goes to United States Marine Corps. Yep.

Rob Fredette (39:32.913)
That's awesome. That's awesome. You you just mentioned the 19 years, I'm just looking at his stats now, 1949, 43 home runs, 159 RBIs, batted 343, and he was the MVP that year. Wow. know, Ted Williams, I have a story. When I worked in Miami back in 95, 96, and 97,

I worked for a company that did the food at Pro Player where the Dolphins and Marlins played. And Jerry Moses who played on the Red Sox in the late 60s, early 70s, he lived in the town I lived in, North Andover as well. So I got to know him. He was the president of the company. So he came down to Florida in March. And that's when the Red Sox, think were at Winter Haven or starting to go to Fort Myers. So he comes to the stadium this one day.

And he goes, you never guess what I did yesterday. I what was that? He goes, I had lunch with Ted Williams. I go, what? I said, you've got to let me come with you next time. And he laughed, but that wasn't going to happen. But I said, you had lunch with Ted Williams? I said, that's the best. He was the, at that time, I think he was the president of the Alumni Association for Major League Baseball players. So he got to know, he knew Nolan Ryan. I mean, he knew everybody. But to say he had lunch with Ted Williams, he just said it like it was no big deal. I'd be like going crazy. So that was a cool story.

Moore to Consider (40:55.353)
Yeah. Williams was a larger in life figure. Another thing that I mentioned in a show, we got talking about Ted Williams is because of. a friend of mine was that I was doing the show with was like, you know, when you're going to the hall, I'm pretty sure it was 66. His last season was 1960 as his first season was 61. And you know, he replaced him in left field or went into that. Yeah. It was 66 and.

Rob Fredette (41:19.492)
66.

Moore to Consider (41:23.461)
what I remember about watching something that somebody had posted about that induction, he was the first guy to ever say, I think this is a beautiful story about Ted Williams. He was the first guy to say the players from the Negro leagues who never had the chance to play in the big leagues in the major leagues needs to be in the hall. The first guy to say it. And it was later talked about where he was on race.

one guy I saw in an interview that absolutely loved him was Satchel Paige. And then I saw a story about Pumsey Green was the first black player for the Red Sox in 59, 12 years after Jackie Robinson. And he was Cornell Green's brother that played defensive back for the Dallas Cowboys. So Pumsey Green, saw him on an interview. I don't know what point in his life it was, but he was like, yeah, you when I go to the Red Sox, I'm like, I'm the only black guy. I wonder how I'm going to be received.

And I walk in the clubhouse and this guy goes, Hey, you want to go get a catch? And I look up it's Ted Williams. And I'm like, Whoa, okay. Ted Williams, biggest star in baseball is coming for a catch. Well, the explanation was, uh, Ted Williams' mother was Mexican growing up in San Diego. And he heard snide remarks and things that were racially insensitive or ethnically insensitive. So he was always sensitive to race. And he was always out in front and ahead of that.

in a way that when you see the black players that broke into baseball, Larry Doby being the first in the American league, all of them spoke fondly of Williams. And I think it says a lot about him. And he had a thing where he was very sensitive to the needs of kids and you know, the Jimmy fund. So he's an interesting cat. He's he's into he's got problems with the fans. He had the incident where he spit at the fans, got a $5,000 fine.

He didn't tip his cap on his last home run in 1960. He thought about it, but he didn't do it. And he was an angry person. And on one of the documentaries I saw on him, one of the players like, when he cursed, he did it with the level of passion. goes, nobody could ever curse with Ted William. Like he goes, when he GD'd something, he meant, I want God.

Rob Fredette (43:26.56)
you

Moore to Consider (43:39.66)
to damn this like he, was passionate. So he was angry about a lot, but when it came to the children, there was an article and I was, I was trying to remember if I got the facts on this exactly right. But there's an article in sports illustrated several years ago that he would go with kids. He would see at the ballpark, he'd buy a hot dog. He'd take kids to lunch and you he always had a sensitive heart for kids. And, there was a story in sports illustrated.

Rob Fredette (44:00.575)
Hmm.

Moore to Consider (44:06.891)
I would say at least 30 years ago and maybe more. And it was a story of a kid that he did all these things for. And the kid goes on to become a man and married with children and he dies. I believe in this like his 50s. So now Williams is probably in his 70s. And as a player, he had really taken this guy in and he gives him a nickname.

And you know, it's like Jimmy scooter, scooter, scooter, Jim, something. He gave him some kind of nickname. Well, the daughter is going through with her new husband. She's in her 20s. She's going through the garage. Her dad's passed and they're going through and the new husband goes, Holy cow. Where did all this come from? And she was like, what? He goes, do you see this memorabilia, the sign stuff? And she goes, yeah, dad used to know some player. Honey, this is Ted Williams. And she has no idea.

Rob Fredette (44:35.604)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (45:00.567)
my gosh!

Moore to Consider (45:01.279)
Right. So he said, you need to go see him. So much like the as incident I saw in spring training, Williams wasn't the most friendly, I think, to people calling out his name. So the sports illustrated article says she goes there and she's standing there not knowing what's going to happen. He comes rolling up in a golf cart field to field to do hitting instruction. And people are like, Mr. Williams autograph. He just ignoring. And, know, she goes.

Ted, do remember Scooter Jimmy or whatever it was? And he snaps his fingers. Who said that? I did. How do you know that name? It's my father.

Rob Fredette (45:41.775)
Wow.

Moore to Consider (45:42.0)
Everybody parts, like everybody gets it. And he goes, it's like part in the Red Sea. Everybody goes and he goes, come here, honey. And they walked down to the outfield and she explains that her father just passed.

Rob Fredette (45:54.159)
my gosh. So he had a heart. He had a heart.

Moore to Consider (45:55.882)
And he remember, yeah, yeah. So he hugs her and tells her it means a lot to him that she came. But when she says the name, he snapped. Who said that? I did. How do you know that's my dad? He just passed away. And you know, sometimes people are pretty good souls. They recognize that he said, everybody just like, let's move away. They need to have a moment. And he took her onto the field and just walked with her and.

Rob Fredette (46:00.316)
You know.

Moore to Consider (46:24.98)
Yeah, but he, had no idea even what until her husband said, the story was until the husband says, do you recognize who your dad was getting autograph? And it's like, Hey, the scooter love you, Ted and stuff. And she never thought they never, he never really spoke of.

Rob Fredette (46:38.585)
Cheers!

Really? Cause you know, I remember in the mid nineties, I was living in Fort Lauderdale and I went, the Orioles had moved into the Yankees stadium there because the Yankees went to Tampa. And I remember the Orioles were, you know, getting ready for a game and Kyle Ripken was in the midst of that, you know, the street there and people were just like.

Moore to Consider (46:53.056)
temple.

Rob Fredette (47:05.977)
I mean literally there were adults edging out children to get autographs. They had posters and pictures and things and it was like, it was really upsetting. I couldn't believe it. I was just like, need to get a life. So I see like we said they parted the ways. But I also think Ted Williams and the 99 All-Star game, if you watch it on YouTube, I know you've seen it. That was a tremendous moment.

Moore to Consider (47:25.408)
Beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Going out of the century and him getting that recognition and all the, all the things that aligned and yeah, I think also that was his final chance to tell Boston. really loved him. Cause he, cause he passes in what? four, three. It's four more years, maybe, 2002. So he had three more years. Yeah.

Rob Fredette (47:29.243)
It was great.

Rob Fredette (47:42.543)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (47:45.979)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Fredette (47:49.883)
2002, 2002.

Moore to Consider (47:54.432)
Yeah, that was a beautiful moment. And you know, you looked in the eyes of McGuire and Tony Gwyn and you know, Bagwa. Yeah, those guys, they got it, man. They got it. Like you could tell they're like, man, this is, this is the guy. This is the guy. They all had to know that. And I think that's lost a little bit. I don't know. I don't want to keep like, you know, pooping on the next generation or saying the kids are wrong, but I don't think there really is aware of the history.

Rob Fredette (48:01.37)
Junior, Griffey Junior, man.

Moore to Consider (48:24.596)
is maybe those guys were, but I do remember reading an article in sports illustrated in the mid nineties and in the mid nineties. And it was a story about how, when Ryan Sandberg, Ryan Sandberg came to the cubs, one of the coaches like, Hey, when do you meet Mr. Cub? And he goes, wait on about it. And they're like, Ernie banks. And he goes, who's that? So even in that time, then the other funny one was Jay Bell.

You may have seen the black and white, if any fan watching this, it's great. The best one ever is maize and mantle. They did the home run Derby in the old Wrigley field, the Pacific coast league Wrigley field in California, which was the first home of the angels when they were the Los Angeles angels, the first season 61. So they go out to that stadium. It was three 40 and three 39 down the lines left, right. Didn't make any difference. And you know, mandolin maize are going at it all these guys.

Rob Fredette (49:10.881)
Yes.

Moore to Consider (49:22.436)
are out there hitting on these old black and white films. And when you see the mantle maze, it's crazy. So the story in Sports Illustrated, not only did it kind of dig on Ryan Sandberg, they said, J. Bell is standing around the batting cage. And one of the coaches is clearly a player from the 50s and 60s. goes, hey, hey, He goes, what's up, son? He goes, have you ever seen that home run derby? yeah.

Rob Fredette (49:40.343)
.

Moore to Consider (49:50.388)
I remember the time. Yeah, I remember the guys on there. He goes, man, there was this dude, right? Okay. There's this dude from the Yankees. And I mean, he's hitting balls six miles. His movements are incredible. And he goes, talking about Mantle? Yeah, that's him. That's the guy. Yeah. And so they were saying that here's J. Bell, saying, oh yeah, Mantle. That's the guy that I saw. And he goes, dude, you do young man, you do know who you do know Mickey Mantle. And apparently

Rob Fredette (50:12.351)
You

Moore to Consider (50:19.432)
That seeing it on ESPN Classic Sports was like, wow, who the hell was this guy? So I...

Rob Fredette (50:22.423)
you

Yeah, that's it's it's pretty cool. I love the nostalgia of baseball That's why baseball has that you know you can romanticize about the old Red Sox teams like Bobby Dore and you know the 70s teams Tony Klinick Laro had his career cut short It's just great to know that you can you know you look back I still watch that 99 all-star game or I'll watch the 04 series against the Yankees and when they won the World Series

I always like to go back and look at it I still can't believe it's been over 20 years.

Moore to Consider (50:58.078)
Well, one of the talks I got into with the guy yesterday, who's a big sports guy, you know, we were having a similar type of discussion and this is something that I've been fighting for 30 plus years and I'll try to get your take on it too. I'm coaching college baseball right now and I'm working with pitchers and all the kids are chasing velocity and spin rates and, know, how much their ball moves vertical, lateral, or whatever. And there's mills out there teaching these kids that.

Massive amounts of movement or the ball that kind of stays up longer. The ball that has ride is better. Well, I can see all that. Like I, I can see, I mean, I've worked with 15 kids that have played in the big leagues, probably a hundred kids that have played pro ball. So I've been around. You see the ones that are special and you sometimes see it when they're young. I had Verlander on a fall ball team. Now you'd have told me at 17, 18, he was going to be what I saw him at 19. I didn't see that coming.

That all happened as freshmen year at old dominion, but you know, like I said, you kind of see it. So they're getting messages that throw this or you don't play division one, throw this velocity. So they don't know how to pitch really. And the other thing that I think is adversely affecting them. And I mean, this is they're playing for social media. So what they, was in a summer league. It's a pretty prestigious summer league a couple of years ago and all the guys were pulling up on the phone was, Hey,

Rob Fredette (52:06.522)
Okay.

Moore to Consider (52:22.131)
You see Jimmy pimp the home run, you see him show up the picture. Basically what they did to celebrate is all they think about. And I was telling a group of kids, said, you know, I saw a poster in an indoor facility and it shows Mickey Mantle, clearly Mickey Mantle, kind of head down. You can see clearly he's in the Yankee dress uniform of like the sixties and his head's down. He's between second and third on his way into third. And the quote says,

Rob Fredette (52:33.716)
you

Rob Fredette (52:44.788)
Thank

Moore to Consider (52:47.879)
When I hit a home run, I dropped my head and tried to get around the bases as quickly as possible. The pitcher felt bad and I didn't want to show him up.

Rob Fredette (52:56.084)
I never heard that story, wow!

Moore to Consider (52:58.771)
And I'm like, I said, guys, that's Mickey Mantle. You show me a guy better today than Mickey Mantle. had 536 home runs. Like coach, it's outdated. We'd like to celebrate. I'm like, but you're not Mickey Mantle guys. If Mantle said be classy, might want to hear that. Right. In the game, the game was so different. I saw Costas one time with Willie Mays. God rest his soul just passed away. Maybe the greatest player ever. And Costas is like Willie.

What was it like to go, you can find this on YouTube, I'm sure it was in that MLB network in the Robinson studio. And he goes, what was it like to be on the field and know you're the best player? And I mean, Mays went, no, no, no, no, no. I never felt that way. come on, Willie. had to, goes, no, no, no. This is how the ethics of major league baseball. If I had a major league uniform on, you had a major league uniform, you were a major leaguer. I showed you respect for that. And Costas is like taking aback We didn't go around thinking we were better than anybody else. I'm like.

Rob Fredette (53:33.287)
Good night.

Moore to Consider (53:58.055)
Damn, that's Willie Mays saying that, right? Wasn't that he didn't respect his own abilities, but he was saying is if you were in the club, if you crossed the line and you had the big league gear on, you're a major leaguer and that in itself deserved respect. And I think a lot of that's lost. That's where I'm going.

Rob Fredette (54:02.069)
Okay.

Rob Fredette (54:15.98)
It is lost. It is lost. you look back at like Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr. when they hit a home run, they would just circle the bases and they would touch home plate and they go. Now it's everybody wants to show them up. There are times though, I think in big games, if somebody hits a dramatic home run, I think those times are appropriate. Probably Jose Bautista with the Blue Jays when they played the Rangers. And I think a couple of years ago when Soler for Atlanta hit that home run against the Astros.

He knew that he hit that thing outside, of the ballpark almost, but he threw the bat down. I think I galvanized the Braves in that game, but there are times you can do that, but to show up just on a mid-season game 52 home run, I agree with you. There should be some respect with that.

Moore to Consider (55:03.43)
Well, we got into the general discussion of football too. remember seeing, and this is again, a I'm showing age, but I'll still say I'm right about this. I know Jim Brown's on the Mount Rushmore Pro Football. I'm sorry, if you're picking four faces, he's on it. I don't care the time. I was talking to some young kids the other day and one of them was saying, well, he couldn't play today. I'm like, how big do you think Jim Brown is or was?

And he's like, I don't know, like five, 10, 109, no, he was six, two over 220 pounds. He goes, what? And I'm like, you don't get it son. If you go, I met Jim Brown in his elderly years at an autograph show, but I've looked at him like, damn, Jim Brown's a big man. So I see Jim Brown, who was also the greatest lacrosse player in history. All American, the best ever. And I see him on an interview and they ask him about, know, Jim, we go back and look at the film. You didn't spike the ball you had until the official. And he said,

Rob Fredette (55:42.766)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (55:48.771)
All American.

Moore to Consider (55:59.213)
Well, because in my day, if you did anything to show off or to show you were a chump, you were, you know, Bush League or he said that because you weren't considered a man. You act like a man. gave the ball the official and act like you were going to be back again. And I'm kind of like, that's Jim Brown saying that, you know, like that might. And now they're so this is football. They intercept the pass. Everybody runs the end zone. They all pose.

Rob Fredette (56:08.994)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (56:26.383)
man, this is really ridiculous. It looks pretty stupid, especially when you're down 31, nothing. And you see the defensive end get the strip sack, the ball's on the ground. They're celebrating the offensive lineman recovers the ball. Baseball, you don't probably have really the same opportunity for the missed opportunity because you're celebrating. But there was a time that that type of showing off would get somebody drilled. You you get your teammate drilled.

It just, it just wasn't well thought of. were unwritten rules, but I agree. think the one rule has always been Maserowski's home run. I think the pirates were celebrating that pretty well. And the fans running on the field. Well, the whole run means the game's over. The pirates just went to. Yeah. Yankees get the hell off the field. You just lost the series. Right. So that's not Maserowski. And I mean, he's just running with his helmet in his hand because everybody's attacking him on the field.

Rob Fredette (56:57.581)
Yeah, season's over, game's over, series is over.

Moore to Consider (57:22.458)
There are famous walk off home runs and I do think it's fair game then. Walk off home run is fair game. Yeah, do whatever.

Rob Fredette (57:28.109)
Yeah, many many Ramirez against the angels when he hits the home run and he just puts his hands up at home plate like that and the guy I remember the announcer said many Ramirez hits a rocket to left field and he hit it over the green monster but there are times like you said that's yeah I mean you were mentioning football Barry Sanders Emmett Smith they would always even Lawrence Taylor when he sacked a quarterback I mean I don't remember him doing any sack dances I know Gastineau did but they

Moore to Consider (57:42.64)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (57:57.07)
Yes, he did.

Rob Fredette (57:57.696)
There was a certain, I don't know, was a certain, I don't know, respect for the opponent. I may be nostalgic about that, but I think there was a certain respect for the opponents at that time. Barry Sanders would just hand the ball, he'd run 99 yards and he'd handed the ball to the official.

Moore to Consider (58:14.0)
See, that was my favorite thing about Art Monk. Art Monk was one of my favorite players. The fact that it took him the years it did to get to the hall of fame is criminal. He left the league the number one receiver. How do you catch more passes than anybody? takes you eight years to get in the hall. something to me that I want to say about Lawrence Taylor, because right where I'm sitting right now is about five minutes from his high school. I'm near Williamsburg, Virginia. He went to Lafayette high school.

And I hear a lot of things about him in their locality and most of it is really great guy. You know, he definitely had his off the field, but I will say this. There's a, one of those documentary things on Joe thighs, but a football life and they go out to RFK and the grass is all grown up and there's trees growing around. They're getting ready to demolish what's left in the stadium. And he said, you called me after you broke my leg. goes, yeah, man. And he goes, you're all acting like something.

Rob Fredette (58:58.443)
Okay.

Moore to Consider (59:09.263)
bad. happened in Thiesman's laughs and said like, broke my leg. It yeah, they didn't kill you. So they're laughing about it. And then Taylor gets this look, you can watch it. He gets this look and he goes, Joe, you know, I never wanted to end your career. You know, I, I, I played hard and all that, but I tell you what, brother, I respected you. I respected you because we could punch you in the mouth and you got right back up, you know, and as a guy I'm sitting here like, damn Lawrence Taylor just told

Rob Fredette (59:28.057)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (59:38.703)
And you could tell it meant the world to the Thiesman. If Lawrence Taylor saying, but dude, I always respected you. And after that, I heard somebody say, know, there's one thing you never heard about Lawrence Taylor. Never heard about him. He played dirty. That's true. I never saw him cheap shot anybody. I never saw him late. I never saw him hit anybody out of bounds. What he did was play the game better than anyone's ever played it. I think.

Rob Fredette (59:41.446)
yeah.

Rob Fredette (59:58.834)
Nope.

Moore to Consider (01:00:05.167)
Now my favorite defensive player to my eyesight was Sean Taylor with Washington. I got a helmet made in the same way he wore, but he dies at 24. We'll never know the rest of the history, but my eyes tell me there's Reggie whites in the conversation. Reggie whites in the conversation, but LT at six, three, two 45 ish, whatever was taken off in some lime and it's thrown him into the quarterback and you saw it. I saw it, but he never did a dirty thing that I can ever remember ever, ever questionable.

Rob Fredette (01:00:28.347)
yeah!

Rob Fredette (01:00:31.824)
No, no, and you you mentioned you're Redskins commander's fan. You're a huge fan of the early eighties teams and you know, throughout your life. you know, John Reagan's when he scored, he never did it. He just handed the ball to the ref.

Moore to Consider (01:00:44.107)
No, Riggins was an interesting cat, but you're right. I never saw him celebrate. He was a bad ass. And that's interesting because somebody has posted all the hits between Riggins and Taylor. And there was a time that, you know, that Taylor gets, interviewed and he goes, nah, that rig is man. That was my guy that Riggins and I had some, and you know, there's some times that Riggins got the better of.

Rob Fredette (01:00:47.848)
He was bad. He was a badass.

Moore to Consider (01:01:11.503)
kind of knocked him backwards, I threw a good block on him. Not too many people ever really got LT, you know? And so, Riggins, but I've seen Riggins live and in person. He's a huge guy. To be a running back, yeah, he's 6'2 plus and he's a big guy. So when you see him in person, you kind of get it. He was a specimen, he was fast. He broke a bunch of records of Gale Sears at Kansas. He was a fast man in the 100 and the time events. He could really run. He was a great runner.

Rob Fredette (01:01:22.64)
Whoa. Man.

Rob Fredette (01:01:41.562)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (01:01:41.743)
So yeah, one other thing about Taylor that meant the world to me, all these helmets up top or remakes of Sonny Jurgensen helmets, they're the actual Riddell models that he wore. I go to get, and I have it right here. This is my 1969 program cover from the year that Vince Labardi was the coach. And I got Sonny to sign it. And on the day I was there, I also got him to sign.

Rob Fredette (01:02:02.022)
WAAA-

Moore to Consider (01:02:10.158)
The Jurgensen-Lombardi cover, yeah, Sports Illustrated cover. this is what's, you know, being a Virginia guy, I love the fact that LT's from Virginia, but what really touched me as a Redskins fan or a Sonny fan, I'm at this autograph show, Taylor's already down, he's interacting with fans, he's signing, Jurgensen breaks the curtain because he's getting ready to start in five minutes. And I see Taylor excuse himself from the group and get up, handshake, pull Sonny in for a hug. And I thought, man, that's class.

Rob Fredette (01:02:11.412)
nice!

Rob Fredette (01:02:39.536)
That's awesome.

Moore to Consider (01:02:39.585)
His first, his first year is 81 Jurgensen's last year 74 Jurgensen does radio. know they know each other. I know that they know each other, but I thought how classy is that for a guy from his era? And this is about 10 years after Taylor plays for him to stop everything, to go to a guy that is from a different era and go say hi and do what he did. And you could.

Rob Fredette (01:03:03.512)
That says a lot. That says a lot about him.

Moore to Consider (01:03:04.671)
It does. it's, I could tell in Jurgensen's eyes, like, ask my, ask my guy LT, come here, LT. Yeah. It was really cool to see. Yeah. It was cool to see. Yeah. That they had that kind of comradery again, not having ever played against each other and came from different. Now one went to Carolina, one went to Duke, one's from Virginia, one's from North Carolina. There's a lot of interconnection from regionally and all that, but it said a lot about Taylor. did.

Rob Fredette (01:03:11.384)
Wow. That is.

Rob Fredette (01:03:29.72)
You know, going back to the Ted Williams 99 All-Star game, we had talked like just looking at Gwyn and Griffey Jr., Piazza, all those guys. mean, even Nomar, Nomar got to talk to him as well during that interaction and McGuire. mean, just the different eras. mean, God, what, 30, 40 years and just the admiration and just they were all glued to Ted Williams. That just says a lot about the class of those guys at that time. I think

Moore to Consider (01:03:37.079)
Mm-hmm.

Moore to Consider (01:03:41.963)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (01:03:59.18)
When you look back, you don't, I don't know you really see that anymore. You may or may not with like, I don't know, Magic, Bird, Jordan, but it's really cool when you see that, that they admire and for the people who paved the way for them. So it's pretty neat.

Moore to Consider (01:04:14.061)
I will say, think people are people are people. And, uh, I'll say this. I have a friend of mine that coached his third for the Texas Rangers, uh, Tony Beasley. grew up together. Tony was the interim manager in 2022 when they fired Woodward. took over until Bochy came in the next year. And, I take Tony's best friend from college to the game. We go to Fenway and I'm brokenhearted over Zander Bogarts.

In my life, I've seen Strawberry Good, I've seen Josh Hamilton's best I've ever seen. Bogarts is in the conversation. The guy is crazy physically gifted, but we go up there for Rangers Red Sox and I'm standing outside with this guy that went to school with Tony and he's one of those beautiful human beings I know. He's from North Carolina, born and raised and Corey Seeger breaks the curtain and he goes, Hey, there's Corey Seeger. And I was like,

I said, well, you know him? goes, I coached him in Legion ball one summer or something. I said, go talk to him. And he was like, I don't want to bother him. I'm like, you know, this guy's name, I was like, so what? You know, I'm like, you know, he takes a few steps over and Seager's like, coach, how you doing? And he was like, hey, buddy. And then he was like, can I get an autograph? He goes, hey, somebody give me a Somebody give me a ball. I fell in love with him as a player.

Corey Sigurd is from Canapolis, North Carolina. think he went to high school in Charlotte, but he had been coached by this buddy of mine. And my buddy was like, I don't know. And he was like, coach, what you doing here, man? How you doing? And I was like, wow. Yeah, he was a really nice kid and tall. mean, Corey Sigurd is very, very tall. Then the next year he has an all-star season, you know, and they win the World Series. But yeah, when you see that.

Rob Fredette (01:05:44.577)
Wow.

Moore to Consider (01:05:56.748)
I'm going to be, I mean, you see that it's kind of heartwarming. You're like, Hey, you he didn't forget his coach from Legion ball or whatever their connection was. But you know, he was like, well, and I mean, he didn't big league him just the opposite. And he was like, can Corey, can I get an autograph? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let somebody give me a baseball, you know, and he signs it and right. And immediately I'm like, he's my favorite player. Now he's my favorite player now because yeah, because he treated a guy that he probably hadn't seen in a number of years.

Rob Fredette (01:06:00.15)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (01:06:18.869)
That's awesome.

Moore to Consider (01:06:24.396)
But guys are like that. You know, lot of guys that I've worked with that have gone on to have success, you don't really know where you stand. You see them 10 years later, like, coach, always meant the world to me that. Always meant the world that you were there to say whatever. You don't know the impact and you know, later it's very rewarding to hear that they gave you shit, what you said. But, it, you know, if you're 11, 12, 15 years old and somebody believes in you. I had a kid that was a first rounder in Clemson.

Rob Fredette (01:06:45.107)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (01:06:52.778)
And I finally got a chance to meet with him and have dinner when he was 23. I went down to work with him and I told the father of another kid that I had told the same thing who kind of went sideways and the father was, well, you owe him an explanation of why he's not having success because he drank too much and ate too much. But back to the good kid. I'm coaching his travel team. It's when I had Verlander, coached his travel team and their second, third, not the responsibility of this picture.

And you see a light switch go on boom, boom, boom, strike out, strike out, gets out of the inning. I'm going to coach third. I'm bypassing. I'm with the white socks sponsor team and this guy with the Orioles, who was a guy that was a scout. He looks at me and goes, Oh, and I was like, yeah, that's pretty nice. When did he go? Yeah. I saw the look. So I come in the dugout. I come in the dugout and I kind of tapped him on the leg and I said, Hey, keep doing what you're doing. You're going to pitch him pro ball. He's 16. He goes into fifth round out of high school, first round out of college.

Rob Fredette (01:07:31.327)
Thank

Rob Fredette (01:07:36.927)
Thank you.

Moore to Consider (01:07:49.739)
So now that I'm working with him, he's in Pro Ball, he's in AA. I come in and work with him. We go out, now he's all grown up, we out and get a steak and a beer. You know, we're in the restaurant and he brings up, he goes, hey, do you remember that time in the dugout you told me I was gonna pitch in Pro Ball? I swear to you, and I went, you remember that? He goes, oh yeah, I never forgot it, because you're the first person to ever say that. And I said, what did you take from that? And he went, I never wanted to let you down.

Rob Fredette (01:08:17.767)
That's awesome.

Moore to Consider (01:08:19.211)
Yeah. Now the other kid kind of pooped the bed, never did much. And he was having a bad outing at college. And the father said, well, you're the one that told him he was going to pitch him pro ball, which he did then ever lasted. And I'm like, what are you saying? And he goes, well, you told me he's going to pitch him pro ball. Mike, you want me to talk to him? So I went up to him and I said, what's the matter? He goes, I know. I fucking didn't have it today. I said, here's the problem. I'm 45. You're 19. I want to pitch in the big league. I'm in better shape than you are. And because I still want to pitch more than you do.

And that kid later admitted all he wanted to do was get drafted so he could tell girls and go in bars and say he was a professional player. And once he, and I loved him to death, but that was a difference. You told two kids they could pitch him pro ball. One process that by going in the first round and saying, I didn't want to let you down. The other kid heard it and you know, whatever, but that's, that's the thing. They're all human. Kids are going to make mistakes. And if you're going to play professionally and play very long, you got to really want to do it.

Rob Fredette (01:08:54.4)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (01:09:17.443)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (01:09:18.826)
Cause cause it's not easy. All right. Let me ask you this on our way out. Who is your all time favorite Red Sox?

Rob Fredette (01:09:22.961)
You got it.

Rob Fredette (01:09:27.355)
I probably have to go with Dwight Evans. Dwight Evans just because he just had that aura and persona about him. Very quiet, professional, all-star. Had the tools, just very confident player. And I probably have to say probably Ortiz as well as Pedro Martinez because I think that

Moore to Consider (01:09:30.249)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (01:09:55.662)
They really shaped the dynamic of that team that won the World Series in 2004. think that shift in not losing to the Yankees was because of those two.

Moore to Consider (01:10:09.084)
I totally agree. I tell you, I was talking to a friend the other day about Washington and some of the players like Monty Coleman, Don Warren, who are those kinds of guys. If you're a fan of a team, you know who those guys are. And I think to some degree, not that he wasn't known nationally, but Dwight Evans was that guy to us. We knew how great he was, but I don't think he ever got the credit. He played in all star games and the rest. What'd he play like 20 years?

Rob Fredette (01:10:19.13)
Hmm

Rob Fredette (01:10:37.55)
Yeah.

Moore to Consider (01:10:38.187)
You know, and he ended up in Baltimore at the end, looked weird and that wasn't right for him to be in an Orioles uniform, but what a gun. Big throwing arm. Yeah. He had the big arm and he was a graceful athlete and big guy, tall guy and movie star looking guy playing. Yeah.

Rob Fredette (01:10:47.596)
yeah!

Rob Fredette (01:10:57.614)
Yeah, I was just about to say he had the movie star look. He has the movie star looks. I he just looked the part. He looked like a professional baseball player like he belonged. That was Dwight Evans.

Moore to Consider (01:11:10.068)
You know, when I was there in Boston to see my friend Tony, I remember a big eruption. You know, I'm sitting in thin way. were six rows back, dead center behind home plate. And there's like this big eruption. like, Hey, what was that about? So like, they just announced it. Dewey's in the box up there and, Evans is up there and he's doing the like, and I was like, my God, it's Dewey. You you're talking about a fan favorite. People love some Dewey.

Rob Fredette (01:11:35.032)
He is he's the man I think he was he was that guy that really was he must have been a great clubhouse guy, too I don't just his presence in the clubhouse maybe you know he looked like after 86 They just I don't know the Red Sox lost gracefully, and I think you know Dewey as well. He was the one that caught the the pitch from Bill Buckner you know

Moore to Consider (01:11:43.178)
I'm sure.

Rob Fredette (01:12:03.254)
before the game. I think that was also we had talked about earlier. I think the fact that he showed up and caught the first pitch by Bill Buckner says a lot about Dwight Evans.

Moore to Consider (01:12:13.969)
And for fans that maybe don't remember this in 75 in the famous game six, where Carbill comes off the bench and hits the three run homer that famously ties the game and leads to Fisk to hit the 12th inning home run. What people often forget is that I think in the 10th, Joe Morgan hits a rocket into right field and Evans in a dead run jumps at a part of the fence is like three feet high. The ball could have easily been over.

He intercepts the ball going out, turns and throws back to the infield and they double off a runner. I think it was Griffey. And that's a pivotal moment in that game. Cause if that ball gets over the glove, it's all, it's lights out, probably lose the game. So that was, yeah, he was in that series. He was in 75 and he was in 86. So God bless him. Anything else you'd like to say on the way out? Oh, please give all your information where we can reach you.

Rob Fredette (01:12:51.682)
Very.

Rob Fredette (01:13:00.182)
Yeah.

Rob Fredette (01:13:05.524)
Well,

Sure, so my name is Rob Fredette. I have a podcast called Hodgepod with Rob Fredette. Jack was on my podcast a couple of weeks ago. We talked about the JFK assassination. You can find that on Apple, Spotify, Podbean, Odyssey, iHeart, radio app. And I love to talk about anything music, sports, true crime, historical events, baseball, movies, TV, whatever. just like...

Nostalgic stuff. love talking about it. So yeah, you can find my podcast on Apple, Spotify, all those podcast platforms.

Moore to Consider (01:13:44.937)
I got another one for you then Prince 2004 when they did the George Harrison tribute is that the best any musician ever did anything? you? 2004 when he did the George Harrison tribute when he does the guitar solo Prince we got you got to watch that check that out you got to check that that is like the yeah it's like the crazy

Rob Fredette (01:13:52.15)
2014.

Rob Fredette (01:13:59.306)
did that?

I gotta see that. And I should know that because I'm a big Beatles fan. I've only had like what five episodes on the Beatles. I'll have to go back and look at that. Yes, but they did play together. Yes.

Moore to Consider (01:14:17.468)
Yeah. So what, so the story is that, Prince just got shafted by rolling stone of not making the top 100 guitarist. So it's, it's Jeff Lin, it's, Tom Petty, it's Steve Wynwood. It's all these guys with Harrison's son doing my guitar gently weeps. And I saw the guy that was the drummer who's also a name musician and

Prince shows up last minute and I saw an interview with the guy goes, I was like, my God, this Prince. So he has on a black pinstripe suit with red shirt cufflinks and a little red hat. And apparently petty said, Hey, stick it to rolling stone. It's the induction of George Harrison, the rock 'n roll hall of fame. they're doing his tribute. He goes into a guitar solo. That's insane.